electronic clutch

Hopefully the EX light switch is a bit cheaper, that could be a money maker.

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DaveAusNor said:

Anton suggested to me that this was a legal issue. I know its required to drive with lights in Europe, but surely they don't have to be always on. I could turn off headlights on all my other bikes.
View attachment 14277

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Theo said:

Here is another one.
First of all, I believe that the following two points, already written about the model already discussed, hold good for this one, too:

If they got approval from Stark, it would be a different situation.
There is a link to their site in the video descripion.
• the price is 1,200 € for Italy,
• when you pull the lever, it makes a noise to indicate the available power from the throttle,
• apparently it connects to a socket already available in the EX, but on their website this clutch is available for the MX, too,
• you can order it with a footbrake conversion kit,
• maybe I've missed this piece of information, but I don't know whether it works in regen,
• they also sell a light switch for the EX and I doubt that it has been approved by Stark either.

In short, IMO if it were approved by Stark Future and if it were cheaper it would make sense, but not like this. I would never buy it without asking Stark about it and I think it's unlikely that they would ever recommend it.

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Chaconne said:

The great advantage of electric motorcycles is the precise control of the power

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Chaconne said:

I don't want a clutch and see little need for it even if it was cheaper.

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drehwurm68 said:

To me it seems like the precision of the throttle is so good, that a human with only a throttle grip can not fully exploit it. That is were those crutches, ähem clutches , come into play giving you an extra control set.

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Theo said:

I think it's very subjective.
I prefer to have the rear brake lever instead of a clutch, but maybe Eli Tomac would feel more comfortable with an electronic clutch and a foot operated brake lever.
Could he become faster if he spent time adapting to our setup? Hard to tell for sure.


It feels to me, too, that you can improve the power delivery with a clutch, even though I don't think it's so crucial to use it.

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fsfs said:

I tried a little experiment and I really like how it performed. I was riding down a mountain on a logging road -- regen was cranked way up. I had the throttle fully closed and used the clutch to control rear wheel regen/braking. It worked really well. Another rider tried it and liked it too. It took only a couple of minutes to get used to.

Might be useful in MX coming into corners...

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Theo said:

Typically, it is suggested that in motocross you don't use the clutch while braking.
Personally, I dislike the feeling of a chattering rear wheel and I use the clutch anyways with gas bikes if the engine braking is high enough to generate chatter.
My Varg, with regen at 40%, never chatters.

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fsfs said:

Suppose you want exactly zero wheel torque (neither positive nor negative torque). The easiest way to do this is pull in the clutch. It is difficult to do this with the throttle -- to keep it in exactly the right position for the torque request for the inverter to be zero. With the clutch it is very easy. When you want a bit of braking, just start releasing the clutch a bit until you get the braking effect you want. On an electric bike there is no harm in controlling regen this way -- there isn't a physical clutch where you are putting heat into it by using it as a mechanical brake.

You can also get the "snap" effect using the clutch and throttle that Hinkelstein mentioned above, but a surprisingly useful/nice benefit is regen control. It was a "oh, that's neat" moment.

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Theo said:

I agree with you and I can't be sure about this without trying an electronic clutch but I still believe that I wouldn't like an additional lever on the left side of the handlebar because I like my rear brake lever to be there and I prefer LHRB to foot brake.

I also think it's worth mentioning that someone, apparently pressed by a strong will to ride and by his special needs as a disabled, already developed a sort of "one control riding style", I mean like a one pedal driving in electric cars, years ago and back then he said that it was the smoothest and most precise way to control an ICE bike; he believed that it was the fastest way to switch from accelerating to braking:

The automatic english subtitles are pretty poor, but basically:
• with the right throttle tube he could also brake by twisting it forward,
• by operating the controls on the left side of the handlebar, he could use the clutch, the other brake and the shifter.
So maybe with an electric bike you could have a twistable tube on the left to disengage the clutch and a LHRB.
Here @ 8:54 you can see some demonstration of what he could do:

It is not proper to say this, but those drifts and wheelies without a helmet were just so badass!!!
Kudos to him, of course!

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fsfs said:

I have played around with a number of things as far the control goes. For bikes I'm not really a fan of the "single input" philosophy. If you like LHRB that obviously conflicts with the clutch. We will try clutch + thumb brake on a bike to see how that works/feels.

For me personally I find that a lever is just more precise than a twist tube, especially off road. From working with various riders to tune this, preferences vary highly from person to person and is highly subjective. There seems to be no "one size fits all".

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OpaTsupa said:

What clutch are you using on the Varg?

If any type of "clutch" or external power control element is to be used, my choice would be a left hand thumb control.
Having a full grip on the bars like in the example of a long downhill you described above is a major advantage in my view.

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fsfs said:

Suppose you want exactly zero wheel torque (neither positive nor negative torque). The easiest way to do this is pull in the clutch. It is difficult to do this with the throttle -- to keep it in exactly the right position for the torque request for the inverter to be zero. With the clutch it is very easy. When you want a bit of braking, just start releasing the clutch a bit until you get the braking effect you want. On an electric bike there is no harm in controlling regen this way -- there isn't a physical clutch where you are putting heat into it by using it as a mechanical brake.

You can also get the "snap" effect using the clutch and throttle that Hinkelstein mentioned above, but a surprisingly useful/nice benefit is regen control. It was a "oh, that's neat" moment.

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