Erwin P
Well-known member
- Likes
- 251
- Location
- Netherlands
The big question is. Is that just the battery weight or everything around it to come to a same feeling bike as well?
Poll BIG BEAUTIFUL POLL: A big fixed battery vs. a small swappable battery
- Thread starter Philip
- Start date
- Likes
- 4,435
- Location
- Lake Havasu City, AZ
The weight breakdown info is in the 1st post. Lots of carefully thought-out details there.
Little by little, our batteries are becoming more energy-dense.
Erwin P
Well-known member
- Likes
- 251
- Location
- Netherlands
I've seen the breakdown and sure the battery weight sounds reasonable.
However with a swappable battery that is not a structural part there comes quite a lott of extra frame. Not only to hold it, but if you want the same stiffness when going around an object instead of using the object you will need way more material.
Edit: And how swappable is a 25-33kg battery. If you have to pull it out from under the seat that's quite the lift. If it has to be pulled down the bike and lifted in the Starks battery could be considered swappable as well.
However with a swappable battery that is not a structural part there comes quite a lott of extra frame. Not only to hold it, but if you want the same stiffness when going around an object instead of using the object you will need way more material.
Edit: And how swappable is a 25-33kg battery. If you have to pull it out from under the seat that's quite the lift. If it has to be pulled down the bike and lifted in the Starks battery could be considered swappable as well.
Johnny Depp
Well-known member
- Likes
- 185
- Location
- Austin TX
Pretty hard to standardize something that is constantly changing.This makes sense for fleets or city centers with high density of EV.
Maybe we'll see battery banks downtown in Europe and NA in a few years however it would probably take much longer (if ever) to appear at MX tracks.
BTW this was the reasoning behind Honda, Yamaha, Piaggio, KTM founding the Swappable Batteries Motorcycle Consortium (SBMC) in 2021 (dedicated to low power scooters and small commuter bikes). However Honda, Yamaha (and Kawasaki who had later joined) left SBMC in 2025.
On a more positive note, Gachaco, gathering the big 4 japanese OEMs and Eneos, focuses exclusively on Japan and last year they've opened their first battery swapping station for small EV scooters in Tokyo.
Taiwan also has the Gogoro network and as always, China is ahead of the game with over 1300 NIO stations.
So we may come to that for small commuters in a few years however I doubt battery standardization would concern "performance" vehicles for which OEMs will want to retain commercial advantage, and good luck finding a station at your favorite enduro loop in the middle of nowhere
Erwin P
Well-known member
- Likes
- 251
- Location
- Netherlands
If they could all come together to get the same charging ports and colours of neutral/drive/off etc would be nice.
Some people overheat dirtbikes batteries, so maybe a 8.0 kwh swappable one might satisfy the need of a pro rider who can ride extremely fast for 30 minutes and then need a cool battery ready for the next session.
For example:
• he/she rides for 30 minutes with battery #1
• his/her team readily swaps the batteries and he/she can start riding again after 5 minutes, but will probably wait more to rest anyways
• while battery #2 in used on the bike, battery #1 gets fast recharged while being cooled down with fans, in an hour
• the rider rests for half an hour -at this point this person has already completed two fast sessions- and then gets ready because the mechanics are installing battery #1, just recharged
• then, after 3 30 minutes intensive sessions, I suppose that either this person will go home or will start riding slower with less demand on the batteries.
• at the end of the day, the rider will enjoy some videos from @Erwin P's youtube channel where he and his girlfriend ride a Versys 300 in motocross tracks in muddy condition and will comment: "and I thought I was skilled"
For example:
• he/she rides for 30 minutes with battery #1
• his/her team readily swaps the batteries and he/she can start riding again after 5 minutes, but will probably wait more to rest anyways
• while battery #2 in used on the bike, battery #1 gets fast recharged while being cooled down with fans, in an hour
• the rider rests for half an hour -at this point this person has already completed two fast sessions- and then gets ready because the mechanics are installing battery #1, just recharged
• then, after 3 30 minutes intensive sessions, I suppose that either this person will go home or will start riding slower with less demand on the batteries.
• at the end of the day, the rider will enjoy some videos from @Erwin P's youtube channel where he and his girlfriend ride a Versys 300 in motocross tracks in muddy condition and will comment: "and I thought I was skilled"
Erwin P
Well-known member
- Likes
- 251
- Location
- Netherlands
Hahaha thanks for the compliment!
We are now in the rocks at Pascuet and Boade. 6,5kWh battery is near to undrainable with out skills here.
But as you know we are sandriders
Edit: And given 5 minutes and have the holes drilled for the battery bolts me and the GF will have the Stark battery swapped as well.
We are now in the rocks at Pascuet and Boade. 6,5kWh battery is near to undrainable with out skills here.
But as you know we are sandriders
Edit: And given 5 minutes and have the holes drilled for the battery bolts me and the GF will have the Stark battery swapped as well.
Last edited:
Motophyllic
Well-known member
- Likes
- 338
- Location
- NY
What about a 209 pound 2 kWh battery option for your 8 kWh bike. Not everyone needs 4 laps at full power or long trail rides. Freestyle guys could do a quick show and swap a new battery in when needed, but enjoy all the weight savings.
Johnny Depp
Well-known member
- Likes
- 185
- Location
- Austin TX
Yeah! Now add slots for 2-3 more batteries, Viola!
markhamr
Well-known member
- Likes
- 80
- Location
- blaxlands creek australia
I am with theo
That formula seems right to me 4 x 30minutes
I ride a mx
I asked flux for 6.5kw
Easy swap like a ultra bee
would be the go.(no tools)1 minute. more like 20 seconds in a hurry
The lowest weight possible please,without compromising balance
or fitting sh&t that doesn't work. Like lightweight tubes that don't hold air.
That formula seems right to me 4 x 30minutes
I ride a mx
I asked flux for 6.5kw
Easy swap like a ultra bee
would be the go.(no tools)1 minute. more like 20 seconds in a hurry
The lowest weight possible please,without compromising balance
or fitting sh&t that doesn't work. Like lightweight tubes that don't hold air.
Erwin P
Well-known member
- Likes
- 251
- Location
- Netherlands
I think one of the main reasons why their StormBee is so heavy (127kg) while being smaller and way less powerfull is the removable battery.
You should have a look st that bike and see how much bulk there is around that battery.
And imagine people complaining about a bike being heavy lift a 35kg battery from under the seat. In the Ultrabee that's allready a heavy job with just 20kg and a way lower bike.
You should have a look st that bike and see how much bulk there is around that battery.
And imagine people complaining about a bike being heavy lift a 35kg battery from under the seat. In the Ultrabee that's allready a heavy job with just 20kg and a way lower bike.
markhamr
Well-known member
- Likes
- 80
- Location
- blaxlands creek australia
We all know the storm bee is not a good mx bike erwin
That's why i bought a stark.
Replaceable makes it a lot more viable for a lot of riders.
My bike was useless as a mx bike untill the gearing change
fixed the ability to get through a days riding
thanks again jd.
Can you manage the weight of the stark battery when you change it.
I am thinking the 1.2 looks like a great improvement .
I would go get one but the company's antics have put me off.
Maybe in a few months when the initial price drops at least i could trade my mx1 and get rid of it.
I can see why the push is more towards general offroad .
Motocross bikes are a more refined breed ridden by few in comparison.
The ex hits the mark.
That's why i bought a stark.
Replaceable makes it a lot more viable for a lot of riders.
My bike was useless as a mx bike untill the gearing change
fixed the ability to get through a days riding
thanks again jd.
Can you manage the weight of the stark battery when you change it.
I am thinking the 1.2 looks like a great improvement .
I would go get one but the company's antics have put me off.
Maybe in a few months when the initial price drops at least i could trade my mx1 and get rid of it.
I can see why the push is more towards general offroad .
Motocross bikes are a more refined breed ridden by few in comparison.
The ex hits the mark.
Erwin P
Well-known member
- Likes
- 251
- Location
- Netherlands
I'm not talking about the StormBee being a good or bad bike. Just a comparison to what kind of additional bulk we are talking about when the battery needs to be swappable.
I can tell you the Stark battery is very heavy to work around. Sure lifting it is easy enough. But now lift it above seat height and try to slid it into something carefully. And if you slide it from underneath and attach it with some clips or something... Then you might as well call the Stark battery swappable. With any sort of usefull range you're talking 30kg at least. That's quite the handfull.
I can tell you the Stark battery is very heavy to work around. Sure lifting it is easy enough. But now lift it above seat height and try to slid it into something carefully. And if you slide it from underneath and attach it with some clips or something... Then you might as well call the Stark battery swappable. With any sort of usefull range you're talking 30kg at least. That's quite the handfull.
The freeride battery set up works quite well, 4 threaded rods and no plug just contacts, less chance of dropping dirt in the contacts.
What bits are on the stark that allow the battery to be charged ? in other words could you get a gen 1 loom with charger plug and charge the battery or does it need the vcu and maybe bits that are built in to the drivetrain/inverter?
Erwin P
Well-known member
- Likes
- 251
- Location
- Netherlands
It does need the VCU and Drivertrain. So it's probably the cheapest to just get an extra bike and just forget about the battery swap.
Otherwise you just have 1 extra battery for the swap and you have to do it again in the evening.
Otherwise you just have 1 extra battery for the swap and you have to do it again in the evening.
markhamr
Well-known member
- Likes
- 80
- Location
- blaxlands creek australia
My original thought was to have 2 bikes.
But then the bike did not have the performance to warrant going there.
A stark 1.2 with a 6.5 kw battery would get me where I want to be.
I probably should test a stock one anyway.
But then the bike did not have the performance to warrant going there.
A stark 1.2 with a 6.5 kw battery would get me where I want to be.
I probably should test a stock one anyway.
Erwin P
Well-known member
- Likes
- 251
- Location
- Netherlands
There no longer is a 6,5kW. The 7,2 replaced it and weighs the same.
FYR
Well-known member
- Likes
- 112
- Location
- Central Valley, CA
Finally, a seriously considerable option over just riding our gas bikes. So, "Motophyllic", how do you make that happen - 209 lbs.??? I'd bite on that rig with 2 batteries and my generator.
So the ktm freeride E-xc battery......
"KTM's Freeride E battery has evolved from the early 2.6 kWh units in models like the 2014 E-Freeride and 2015 E to the larger 3.9 kWh, 260V batteries in the second-generation 2017/2018 and 2020 E-XC, offering improved range and power thanks to advancements in lithium-ion technology. This second-gen battery, made by Sony, increased capacity and allowed for higher power output, though it also slightly increased charging times."
Is swapable between the early and later bikes, I assume the same case but with better battery cells.
Could the same be done with oiur 6.5 kw 1.0 battery to bring it up to 7.2 but it still fit the 1.0 loom ?
"KTM's Freeride E battery has evolved from the early 2.6 kWh units in models like the 2014 E-Freeride and 2015 E to the larger 3.9 kWh, 260V batteries in the second-generation 2017/2018 and 2020 E-XC, offering improved range and power thanks to advancements in lithium-ion technology. This second-gen battery, made by Sony, increased capacity and allowed for higher power output, though it also slightly increased charging times."
Is swapable between the early and later bikes, I assume the same case but with better battery cells.
Could the same be done with oiur 6.5 kw 1.0 battery to bring it up to 7.2 but it still fit the 1.0 loom ?