Stark Battery Tech Thread

Beagle said:
I don't see fast charging as much of a technical hurdle as reaching energy density in the 500s Wh/kg?

After all, commercial 21700 cells like Molicel P50B released in 2024 was already rated 5C allowing 15ish min charging.

Of course it would degrade cycle life but we're really close from that not being a concern anymore: P50B is rated at 750 (5C/-1C) cycles for 80% retention, CATL just unveiled a 5C cell rated for 3000 cycles at 80% retention (not many details not any release date yet).

In this coffee break charging goal, I believe the real hurdle is charging infrastructure. And here the limitation comes from your government rather than the technology.
Click to expand...

I think that one of the main technical problems is heat. Let's say that a fast rider uses the whole charge of a 6.5 or 7.2 kWh battery in 0.5 hours, that means that the average power output has been roughly 14 kW. On the straightaways he probably used way more but then there is also braking and cornering.
Now, such a rider could potentially overheat the bike, especially if the environmental temperature is high.
Then this rider puts the bike under charge and now the charging power is maybe 7 kW or more, but it's continuous. The chances of overheating keep being high.
IMO it would be cool, no pun intended, if they managed to make some kind of tool that can significantly actively cool the battery and if necessary the powertrain while fast charging. Maybe something with peltier modules, for example.
 
Cars have fully shifted to water-cooled batteries so they can have fast charging without overheating. I think that's going to be valuable for bikes, despite the smaller size of batteries. Liquiud battery cooling won't work for the Varg platform but I'm assuming the next bikes will be different.

In this coffee break charging goal, I believe the real hurdle is charging infrastructure. And here the limitation comes from your government rather than the technology.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. NZ government decided to just let the free market handle it and that's a foolish way to do infrastructure. Of course now we have ten different networks needing ten different apps and ten different accounts for a country that's got a population the same size as Alabama. And somehow fast charging ended up as much as buying petrol.
 
Can't find any online trace of Stark livestream about battery tech that was supposed to happen yesterday?

We don't really need Anton taking down Donut to know it's pure BS: there are conflicting news from Verge and Donut but Verge motorcycles deliveries could have suddenly been delayed from March 26 to end of the year 26 for Estonia/Finland and well into 27 for other countries. It could be dates for just "orders made today" but they have made contradictory statements regarding this.
By their own admission, annual production capacity is supposed to be 350 motorcycles. Which would still be huge for them since they've only ever made about 100 motorcycles since the company started in 2018.
And the bike is not certified anywhere at the moment...
Don't hold your breath folks.

 
I wasn't sure where to put this:

here's an interesting vid about battery swaps. To make a long story short, some regional league rider wanted to race what might the most famous sand race: Le Touquet enduro.

Race lasts 3 hours, he planned to swap batteries every 20 min, anyway safety commission said no so for this year he will have to make do with 45 min exhibition electric race.

The interesting bit is that they've filmed his partner training for sub-1 min battery swaps and the mechanic explains in some details the modifications made to the bike (especially chassis) for hot swaps, it starts at 18 min. They've also got a monstrous device to lift the front wheel. Training in the shop it took 3 people, 39 seconds!

 
Beagle said:
Unfortunately I think it's kinda like asking Honda if you can buy just the new engine to fit in your old frame instead of the whole new bike.

That does not fit with OEM business model.

Plus from an engineering point of view, you don't want any external constraint linked to retrofitting when you're designing a new bike, you want to take all the advantage you can to make the best possible bike. If you need to slightly alter the battery case dimensions to make it better fit with the new frame, you don't care that it won't fit in the old bike.

Sorry, don't put high hopes on this.
Click to expand...
I think there is a difference……for one the motor updates don’t increase range and charging capability.

Also the cost of a motor isn’t 50% of a 13k bike…..a battery is far more expensive.

Pending updates to battery tech is a HUGE deterrent for consumers that know a lot will change in the next year.
 
If anyone had to take an educated guess when do you think we will see another battery related range upgrade? Not software.

I sold my gen 1 feeling like there would be a new one soon and 2 weeks later 1.2 dropped.

Now I wanna buy a 1.2 but if we are up for another 20% increase in the next few months I wanna wait! Haha.

I’m sure everyone would love this answer but I thought it would be a good talking point in the battery tech thread.

Also for you super smart battery guys…how much improvement on range do you think is possible just in software updates increasing efficiency in current 1.2 FORM?
 
Battery tech is like intel micro chips, every year there is a better one. Right now there are better batteries out there with higher density than the 1.2 model. So if I were to guess, and it is just a GUESS, late summer or fall 1.3 model.
 
I'll guess new battery every couple of years?

This time I expect them to first release the ALG, then a few months later update the Varg range with the new cells. Could be proper Varg 2.0.
 
Captblues said:
Battery tech is like intel micro chips, every year there is a better one. Right now there are better batteries out there with higher density than the 1.2 model. So if I were to guess, and it is just a GUES, late summer or fall 1.3 model.
Click to expand...
late summer is too soon in my opinion for an updated Varg

I don't think the Varg 2.0 will arrive before May/June 2027.

First, they have to properly develop the ALG (they're still testing the new cells with A123). There's still a lot of testing to do. Then they have to present it and launch it on the market... which I don't think will be in 2026. It will probably be in the first quarter of 2027, December 2026 at the earliest, just like the EX. And I don't think they'll present the Varg 2.0 with a new battery until at least 6-8 months later. So far, they've managed to reach 9 kWh in recent tests, but I think they should really be aiming for 10 kWh; that's THE NUMBER.

I'm intrigued by how they're going to manage the new cell and its different dimensions within the Varg chassis... worthy of in-depth study
 
Consider that by creating a VARG 2.0, all 3 models would already be improvable, and the SM has only been on the market for three months, with the first deliveries just a month ago... it doesn't make sense to have an update already in the summer... especially since the SM is the model that most needs a battery upgrade.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to offer two battery options on the 2.0, as we've discussed before. Here's my realistic calculation:

Right now, it's almost 100% confirmed that a density of 330 Wh/kg is possible, but I think if they could achieve 360 Wh/kg, things would improve significantly, because they could manufacture:

Lightweight battery: 360 Wh/kg x 20 kg battery = 7.2 kWh (which is the same as now but 8 kg lighter)

Large battery: 360 Wh/kg x 28 kg battery = 10,080 kWh (with the same weight as now)

A DREAM
 
Just to compare, last night i went on a ride with my EX with SM wheels (15/47 sprockets) with 2 friends, one with husq 701 and the other with ktm 690smc r 2024... they have full tank, me at 100% battery, same driving... 50% fast driving 50% chill, 80km later i had 8% battery and they have 40% tank left... SM is not there yet, even with a 10kw battery i will be shorter on range, much better, but no the same

PXL_20260213_180557966 (1).jpg
 
Love your enthusiasm @Karinshi 😁

Personally I'm more excited about the ALG, if they can hit 15 kWh while keeping weight under 150 kg that could be a great dual sport bike.

edit: of course needs CCS compatibility for the 10-15 min "coffee break" charge, that would be a game changer and much needed for road bikes.

330 Wh/kg is 45 kg for 15 kWh, so adding 18 kg in cells compared to Varg EX, it might be doable to double the range while keeping additional weight under 30 kg (so bike weight under 150 kg), just do it ✊

Hardest thing may be to make it at a competitive price, it would probably be marketed as an expensive adventure bike rather than a modest dual sport bike.
 
Beagle said:
Love your enthusiasm @Karinshi 😁

Personally I'm more excited about the ALG, if they can hit 15 kWh while keeping weight under 150 kg that could be a great dual sport bike.

edit: of course needs CCS compatibility for the 10-15 min "coffee break" charge, that would be a game changer and much needed for road bikes.

330 Wh/kg is 45 kg for 15 kWh, so adding 18 kg in cells compared to Varg EX, it might be doable to double the range while keeping additional weight under 30 kg (so bike weight under 150 kg), just do it ✊

Hardest thing may be to make it at a competitive price, it would probably be marketed as an expensive adventure bike rather than a modest dual sport bike.
Click to expand...
Yes, that could be good... what power would you choose? 80hp aswell?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Stark varg problem - Low battery voltage
Replies
4
Views
1,877
Waynder
W
S
Stark Varg battery drained?
Replies
5
Views
2,159
Chadx
C
J
Has anyone tried a battery-generator like this with the Stark or Alta?
Replies
2
Views
1,463
jcozine
J
Back
Top