Kreft's Take on the MXR Suspension


TCMB371

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ALTA MXR - DETAILED ARTICLE

I agree with their assessment. I'm finding that the fork has a lot of damping force, and running higher pressure with compression clickers in the 20-25 range feels a lot better. Kreft quantified it as being nearly double they normally see in a MX bike. The shock being the absolute opposite, with nearly half the compression damping as a typical shock.
 

Philip

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You beat me to it! I was going to post the entire thing. Here it goes:

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ALTA MXR
Electric Motocross Bike


Kreft Moto staff recently spent three weeks testing a 2018 Alta MXR, the electric motocross bike built in California. You may have seen Josh Hill riding an Alta in the Red Bull Straight Rhythm supercross event last year, where it proved to be remarkably competitive.

The Alta comes with the same WP suspension components we know from KTM and Husqvarna, so it is a good fit for Kreft Moto services. We wanted to evaluate the stock suspension and see what we could do to improve it. Naturally, we were also just curious to ride it.

To learn more about our analysis and solutions for this unique motorcycle visit our Alta MXR webpage.

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Philip

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ALTA MXR
OVERVIEW

Kreft Moto staff recently spent three weeks testing a 2018 Alta MXR, the electric motocross bike built in California. You may have seen Josh Hill riding an Alta in the Red Bull Straight Rhythm supercross event last year, where it proved to be remarkably competitive.

The Alta comes with the same WP suspension components we know from KTM and Husqvarna, so it is a good fit for Kreft Moto services. We wanted to evaluate the stock suspension and see what we could do to improve it. Naturally, we were also just curious to ride it.

A summary of analysis and suspension solutions are below, but if you want to read a more detailed article click HERE.

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ANALYSIS
SPECIFICATIONS
Weight
  • Alta MXR = 262.4 lbs.
  • 29 lbs. heavier than a KTM 350 SX-F full of gas (233lbs)
Center of Gravity
  • C.G. is 21mm higher and 25mm farther forward than a KTM 350 SX-F
Weight Distribution
  • Alta 49.6% Front / 50.4% Rear
  • KTM 47.9% Front / 52.1% Rear
ASSESSMENT OF STOCK SUSPENSION AND HANDLING
NEGATIVE

  • Too soft for MX track riding and racing
  • Feels balanced in corners, but not on whoops and jumps
  • Excessive pitching front-to-rear
POSITIVE
  • Strong cornering performance - especially for a heavy bike
  • Excellent traction at both wheels
FORK
Minimal Compression Damping
  • Relies excessively on air spring to absorb impacts
  • Blows through travel = feels harsh past mid-stroke
Excessive Rebound Damping
  • Prone to “packing” - feels harsh on successive impacts (e.g. braking bumps)
SHOCK
Oversprung and Underdamped
  • The shock has a bouncy, free-moving feel reminiscent of enduro suspension
  • OEM shock spring is suited to a 200+ lb rider
  • The combination of a stiff spring and soft damping rear tends to kick up and pitch the rider forward on obstacles that tap both wheels in sequence, like whoops and some jump faces.

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Kreft Moto Solution
Optimal suspension performance for MX track riding/racing
FORK

  • Install Revalve Control, Kreft’s external revalve system
  • Custom Valving
  • Increased low & mid speed compression damping
  • Reduced rebound damping
  • Create linear spring curve
SHOCK
  • Custom Valving
  • Install correct spring rate for target rider
  • Increased low & mid speed compression damping
  • Increased rebound damping
PERFORMANCE BENEFITS
  • Supports aggressive riding on a full-sized motocross track
  • Stable platform - suspension stays up in the stroke
  • Reduced “packing” on braking and acceleration bumps
  • Improved control on jumps and whoops
  • Eliminate pitching
  • Improved tracking and traction
  • Reduce air spring progression to more closely match a coil-spring fork
  • Utilize full suspension travel without sacrificing bottoming resistance
  • Revalve Control provides a dramatic increase in fork’s adjustability
SUSPENSION DYNO GRAPHS
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ALTA MXR PACKAGE PRICING
KREFT AER48 WITH REVALVE CONTROL
$975 + Parts and Fluid
  • Kreft Moto's AER48 Revalve Control system with independent compression, rebound, and Revalve Control adjusters
  • Revalve Control settings table - a guide to tuning your suspension for optimal performance in different conditions
  • Custom valving setting adapted to each customer
  • Air spring modification for a more linear spring curve - like a coil spring fork
  • Nitrogen-charged air spring element for pressure stability
  • Cleaning, inspection, and replacement of wear parts where required
  • Note: cost of wear parts and fluid not included
SHOCK REVALVE
$275 + Parts and Fluid
  • We create and install a custom valving setting optimized for your terrain, speed, riding style, height, and weight
  • Synchronize shock valving with fork valving to create balanced chassis and optimal suspension performance
  • Revalve includes all services provided in a service
OPTIONS
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Philip

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ALTA MXR - DETAILS
2018 ALTA MXR – ELECTRIC MX BIKE

Kreft Moto staff recently spent three weeks testing a 2018 Alta MXR, the electric motocross bike built in California. You may have seen Josh Hill riding an Alta in the Red Bull Straight Rhythm supercross event last year, where it proved to be remarkably competitive.

The Alta comes with the same WP suspension components we know from KTM and Husqvarna, so it is potentially a good fit for Kreft Moto services. We wanted to evaluate the stock suspension and see what we could do to improve it. Naturally, we were also just curious to ride it.

SUSPENSION ANALYSIS

The Alta uses the same WP AER 48 fork and linkage shock that come on new KTM/Husqvarna motocross bikes. However, the valving is nothing like a KTM, or Husqvarna, or any other gas-powered bike. The damping forces are so far from a typical motocross bike, at first, we thought the dyno test results were some kind of error.

The fork generates at least double the compression damping force we normally see. The shock is just the opposite – it produces only half the compression damping of a typical motocross shock. It is in the ballpark of settings we use for technical enduro terrain, not MX.

On a gas-powered bike, two-stroke or four-stroke, this setting would have the suspension balance of a chopper, with a rock-hard fork and an absurdly bouncy shock. But that’s not how the bike rides. Actually, we found it to be pretty well balanced after changing the shock spring. So, what explains the bizarre setup?

First, the Alta is just plain heavy at 262.4 lbs. Also, the center of gravity is higher and farther forward than a typical gas-powered bike. We estimated the center of gravity to be about 21mm higher and 25mm farther forward than a KTM 350 SX-F we used for comparison. The weight is distributed 49.6% front and 50.4% on the rear, versus 47.9% front and 52.1% rear for the KTM.

Other major differences include the lack of clutch and transmission, lack of a spinning crankshaft, and the completely different power deliver characteristics. To their credit, Alta chassis design engineers clearly recognized the need for a unique suspension setup and appear to have started from scratch instead of using a weight-scaled version of an existing motocross setting.

The suspension is weirdly soft for a bike designed for a motocross track. It is simply not adequate for even an intermediate rider on a full-size track. The upside to the soft suspension is that it is quite plush over certain obstacles. The fork in particular, aided by the substantial mass of the battery acting as ballast against the force of impacts, will mow down sharp bumps and even rock ledges. However, this plushness erodes in rapid sequential bumps (like braking bumps) as the combination of minimal compression damping and excessive rebound damping induce packing. Alta appears to have overcompensated for the higher spring forces required to support the bike’s weight, and the rebound damping on the fork is too stiff.

You may not bottom out the suspension despite the soft setting. The AER 48 has excellent bottoming resistance and the shock’s bottom out bumper prevents the metal-to-metal clank. However, that does not necessarily mean the stroke is being utilized effectively. Since the suspension blows through the majority of travel on modest jump lips and landings, it leaves most of the impact force to be absorbed in the last few inches of travel. A large force absorbed over a short distance is what we experience as harshness.

Motocross suspension needs enough low-speed compression damping to support aggressive riding. If it gives up travel too easily, the bike will be uncontrollable at higher speeds or bigger bumps. For example, imagine a rider braking hard into a corner. The fork naturally dives, and while the fork is compressed, the rider hits a big braking bump. A fork sags roughly 30% standing still, and brake dive could easily bring it down another 30%. The fork has already used 60% of the travel before it even hits the bump! In this scenario, the fork will not be able to absorb the bump effectively and the rider could lose control.

We found the OEM 60 N/mm shock spring to be much too stiff for a 175-pound rider. With sag set to 102mm, the spring had no more than one millimeter of preload where we would normally expect 10mm. Most motocross bikes come from the factory tuned for a 175-pound rider, but perhaps Alta decided to break with tradition and target the 200+ pound riders of the world. The other possibility is that the spring choice reflects Alta’s suspension tuning philosophy. Some schools of thought prescribe stiff springs paired with soft damping as a way to achieve a firm feel with good compliance on sharp bumps. This is an oversimplified approach to a complex engineering problem, so we’ll give Alta the benefit of the doubt and assume the stiff spring was selected to suit their typical 200 lbs American customer.

Whatever the case, it didn’t work for our 175 lb test riders. The shock was oversprung and underdamped, just as our measurements had predicted. The rear tends to kick up and slap your butt on obstacles that tap both wheels in sequence, like whoops and some jump faces. This tends to push the rider’s weight farther forward at the precise moment when you want it to be farther back, giving the uneasy sensation of an impending endo.

The shock linkage has a relatively flat leverage curve. It is similar to the enduro-style linkage used on 2018 and 2019 Husqvarna TE and FE models, and notably not like the KTM SX/SX-F linkages. The shock has a bouncy, free-moving feel also reminiscent of enduro suspension. We didn’t like that quality for motocross. It causes pitching, where weight shifts excessively between front and rear wheels instead of providing a solid platform. That constant pitching gives the rider an uncontrolled feeling and causes the tires to lose grip.

RIDE IMPRESSIONS

The Alta is at its best in corners. The instant-on torque makes it easier to ride in a long rut because you can adjust your balance just by modulating the throttle. We do that naturally with any bike, it’s just more noticeable with the Alta because the bike responds to the correction so fast.

The power fades at higher RPMs, and top-end power does not compare favorably to a 350 SX-F. The Alta launches out of corners but kind of leaves you hanging on the straights. To clear some the bigger doubles with the Alta, we felt we had to use the highest power setting to get the necessary speed. That power setting is ferocious at low speeds but, feels tame on the straightaways. (Granted, the bike has NO gears. Adding a transmission would add significantly to cost and complexity of the machine).

One really cool thing about the Alta is that it needs next to no maintenance. It has fewer parts than an equivalent gas-powered bike, so there is less to go wrong and less to take care of. The flip side is that your ride day is over when the battery dies because you can’t just add gas and keep riding. The battery will last for several hours of less demanding use, like trail riding at a low power setting. At full tilt on a motocross track, it’ll be dead within an hour. There is no easy way to swap in a new battery, and even if there were, a spare would likely be very expensive.

SUSPENSION TUNING

We swapped the OEM shock spring for a 57 N/mm. We settled at 102mm rider sag, which gave 30mm static sag when set for a 175 pound rider. The spring change was a big improvement. Though still underdamped, the shock was no longer constantly overpowering the fork.

We then began to work through our normal suspension development cycle: revalve, dyno, ride, repeat. Repeat and repeat until the bike comes into focus and meets performance expectations.

We installed Revalve Control in the fork using the same parts package we use in the KTM and Husqvarna AER 48, but of course, we install the valving setting is completely different. Revalve Control is not just for terrain versatility, it’s also a huge problem solver for our customers. It allows the rider to try different valving settings and, ultimately, to better understand his preferences. It also resolves much of the communication difficulty that can happen between rider and tuner in the search for the ideal setting. The ability to revalve remotely and get instant feedback makes it so much easier for us to diagnose and resolve tuning issues. It is a very powerful tool.

As expected, our final settings are much stiffer than OEM. We dramatically increased low speed compression damping in both the fork and shock, and massaged the shape of the curve to better match the Kreft Moto “firm but plush” target feel. We also made major changes to rebound damping, including revised valving and reduced free bleed to eliminate the bouncy feel and reduce the tendency to pack up on braking and acceleration bumps.

By the time our tuning session concluded, the MXR was a serious motocross bike capable of competing head-to-head with the best traditional bikes. The thing is a flat blast to ride. If you like the idea of showing up to your local motocross track with a fast bike no one else has, but everyone is dying to check out, the Alta is the best way to do it.
 

strider

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The power fades at higher RPMs, and top-end power does not compare favorably to a 350 SX-F. The Alta launches out of corners but kind of leaves you hanging on the straights. To clear some the bigger doubles with the Alta, we felt we had to use the highest power setting to get the necessary speed. That power setting is ferocious at low speeds but, feels tame on the straightaways.
Sounds like they need to go to the 14T front sprocket and ride in Map 4 all the time. That would solve the above.
 

snydes

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"Does not compare favorably to a 350 SX-F"

I wondered too what map they made this assumption in. Something tells me it wasn't 4.
 

snydes

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As Philip found out first hand on the dyno the power difference between the A and R pack bikes is only realized in 4. Since the A pack bikes were supposed to be comparable in HP to a 250f and the R's a 350 KTM/Husky than it's unfortunate they weren't able to do more testing in 4, as claiming the power doesn't compare to a 350 is somewhat misleading. Lugging around an additional 30 pounds with the same HP could also account for this assumption though I imagine.
 

Mark911

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A 5.7 rear sounds very light to me. I'm only 150lbs and the stock 6.3 (2017 MX) seems light! I've chased rear spring rates for quite some time now. The lighter springs work out better when it comes to setting race/static sag the traditional way but in my experience (both riding and through ANSYS simulations) they don't generate enough force to keep the front loaded. So not only do you get a rear that bottoms easily (but may feel too stiff initially) but the forks feel way too stiff BUT will still bottom easily on bigger stuff. It's just not properly balanced (assuming properly sprung forks). Of course, suspension is a very subjective science.
 

Philip

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I would ignore the rear spring and fork pressure recommendations. The MXR is sprung well for an average 180 lbs rider, and no reasonable damping tuning should result in requiring softer or stiffer springs.
 

Whymee

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I would ignore the rear spring and fork pressure recommendations. The MXR is sprung well for an average 180 lbs rider, and no reasonable damping tuning should result in requiring softer or stiffer springs.

Keep in mind my MXR is not here yet. Next week I believe...

If Kreft is that far off on spring rates @180#, can they be trusted for the rest of their recommendations?

I am looking for good (the best?) suspension for my MXR. Kreft was in the running...
 

Judaslefourbe

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I am looking for good (the best?) suspension for my MXR. Kreft was in the running...
Keep in mind that suspension setting is very much a personal preference job.
I would recommend you ride the motorcycle as is and take notes of what happens you do not like in the conditions you ride in (chatter on bumps, shock packing on whoops...). From there, a good suspension shop should be able to improve the settings for you.
 

Bionicman

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the noted CG #s support my suspicions
agree with Juda - if anything ride it the suspension stock is quality
modified rider feedback can be changed per 1 click front or rear
 

synics

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On the small stuff and tight trails in the woods the bike is HARSH as heck, but i can fly over whoops on this thing no problem.
 

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