Stark actually profitable... kinda

But what if you Italians started working full time?

Politcal jokes aside, i don't think you can compare Euro to Euro or Dollar to Dollar.
Sure people in the US get paid more than mostly anybody else, but a lott of what Europeans ''get for free'' is a luxory or extra in the US. Health care insurance for example is way cheaper in Europe. Also average Italians have something like 31 days off a year if i understand correctly? From what i understand in the US 10 is about normal.

Also the cost of live is just different. I'm from the Netherlands and on average we earn about €24K (or €17K after taxes) more per year than Italians, wich is 1 Stark + a trailer + generator, but i don't think we have (much) more buying power than you do. I spend some holidays in Italy. From what i saw houses are way cheaper. Where it's very common to see cost of mortage/rent around €1200-€1800 per month here, i assume that's cheaper in Italy. Same goes for groceries, heating, fuel, services etc etc.

Not here to bash any country, but just looking at paychecks from different country's doesn't make the best comparison on how much they can spend on bikes.

Used some numbers from the internet wich might be of, but you get the picture.

It’s true the Harley following is dying off, and in my opinion, at least partly because they have become so common place.
In the early 90s, you had to wait for a new Harley, there were none in the dealerships, they were sold before arriving at the dealer.
Now the market is flooded.
Unfortunately, they may end production before they regain popularity.

AL_V said:

It’s true the Harley following is dying off, and in my opinion, at least partly because they have become so common place.
In the early 90s, you had to wait for a new Harley, there were none in the dealerships, they were sold before arriving at the dealer.
Now the market is flooded.
Unfortunately, they may end production before they regain popularity.

Click to expand...

One of the problems for HD. They build bikes like they always did. Kind of cool for the heritage thing, but why buy a new one that's like the old one. Those are also not bikes that get ridden hard. Suzuki MX bikes are almost the same as 2 decades ago, but there are plenty of reasons to buy a new one over a 10 year old MX bike. However for a bike that spend it's life cruising and being being shiny...

Edit:
For Stark it's a completely different story. From getting my MX in November '23 till those who are getting their EX now you just get more bike. Streetlegal, bigger battery, actually more of almost everything. So they got me checking my bank account and looking how much a used MX sells for every now and then... And i only had that bike for 1,5 years...

AL_V said:

It’s true the Harley following is dying off, and in my opinion, at least partly because they have become so common place.
In the early 90s, you had to wait for a new Harley, there were none in the dealerships, they were sold before arriving at the dealer.
Now the market is flooded.
Unfortunately, they may end production before they regain popularity.

Click to expand...

The average of a Harley buyer is over 50 these days. A 65 year old today was 30 in early 90s, and probably came in at the tail end of the culture that esteemed those machines. My brother and his ex both bought Harleys in the 90s time period and he is nearing his mid 60s. They sold them after 5 or 10 years and didn't buy again because they were costly and unreliable.

I work with a lot of younger people and those few into MCs are mostly into Asian bikes and no interest in Harley at all. A few of the Indian guys have small bore BMW rodebikes too. Which until they showed their bikes I had never ridden before.

Erwin P said:

But what if you Italians started working full time?
[...]
Also average Italians have something like 31 days off a year if i understand correctly? From what i understand in the US 10 is about normal.

Click to expand...

And I also dare to complain about ICE bikes because I don't have time to change pistons!

Interesting bit from Forbes story

Another wild card is tariffs, which currently stand at a manageable 10% in Europe, according to Wass. Higher tariffs could complicate efforts to break into the U.S. market if the situation changes, Wass said. However, he also believes that the company can manage increased tariffs since Stark’s sales volume in the U.S. is very small at this time, with EU-based sales (and low tariffs) constituting the majority of Stark’s revenue.

Wass mentioned that while the European market continues to see strong sales, he would like Stark Future to better penetrate the North American market in the future, but Wass said the larger goal is to “change the perception of what an electric street motorcycle is.”

Erwin P said:

But what if you Italians started working full time?

Click to expand...

That was very funny, but apparently you Dutch don't work at all compared to the rest of us.

Annual Hours Worked (2022 OECD data, average for full-time workers):

USA: 1,811 hours

Italy: 1,715 hours

Netherlands: 1,417 hours
(notably lower due to strong work-life balance policies)

USA vs. Netherlands: The average Dutch man has ~8% higher purchasing power per hour due to significantly fewer working hours (1,417 vs. 1,811).

This is why you have to pay your 20% VAT versus our 0 - 8% US sales tax.

I have been working with Italians for the last 15 years. I think it's not the amount of hours worked but the bureaucracy and the nepotism.

But you Dutch should try to keep up the appearance that you still go to work sometimes. And don't point fingers, else they may make you work the same as the rest of us.

We pretty much pay a base

Philip said:

That was very funny, but apparently you Dutch don't work at all compared to the rest of us.

Annual Hours Worked (2022 OECD data, average for full-time workers):

USA: 1,811 hours

Italy: 1,715 hours

Netherlands: 1,417 hours
(notably lower due to strong work-life balance policies)

USA vs. Netherlands: The average Dutch man has ~8% higher purchasing power per hour due to significantly fewer working hours (1,417 vs. 1,811).

This is why you have to pay your 20% VAT versus our 0 - 8% US sales tax.

I have been working with Italians for the last 15 years. I think it's not the amount of hours worked but the bureaucracy and the nepotism.

But you Dutch should try to keep up the appearance that you still go to work sometimes. And don't point fingers, else they may make you work the same as the rest of us.

Click to expand...

Soon we will have at least a base 30% pseudo VAT masquerading as tariffs.

Chaconne said:

We pretty much pay a base

Soon we will have at least a base 30% pseudo VAT masquerading as tariffs.

Click to expand...

Lolwut? What retardation is this? Who told you this?

bennymic said:

Lolwut? What retardation is this? Who told you this?

Click to expand...

There this cool thing called google, try it... Here is an easy reader for ya.

Chaconne said:

There this cool thing called google, try it... Here is an easy reader for ya.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/05/16/china-tariff-stacking-true-cost-import-taxes-above-30percent.html

Click to expand...

Google and especially CNBC do not have my trust, but Grok confirms, the Americans are already expected to pay 25% tariffs on Euro motorcycles and 30% tariffs on Chinese motorcycles starting April 3, 2025, as part of broader import duties.

These tariffs are paid to the US government by the dealers/importers and eventually by the US consumers. They reduce the manufacturers' sales and profits, make the dealers and consumers poor, and the US government more fat.