Gummy tires? Tire recommendations?

Any of y’all running gummy tires on your Varg?

I’m still on the stock tires on the EX but thinking about my next set of tires. On my gas bike I’ve been running Mitas XT 454 Double Green, but wondering if they might be too soft for the torquey Stark.

If you’ve found a tire combo you like for forest singletrack or semi hard enduro drop it here!

For the slippery clay forest round here everyone runs Mitas XT 754 Double Green with Tublis at 3 psi. I'm using that on my Stark and getting 40-50 hours out of each one.

I don't think there's a huge difference between the Stark and other bikes when it comes to tyres. We're all limited by the amount of grip that we have. I'm finding there's no point turning it up to more tha 35 hp, coz 35 hp will use all the grip there is and more. Going to higher power levels just means the back end just breaks free more suddenly.

I am still wearing out the stock tires. But on my other bikes (KTM 300 2T and Yam WR450) I use IRC JX8s and ix09s which I also plan to use on my MX. The ix09s are a more of pure gummy, the JX8 are kind of a hybrid. Almost all of my riding is semi HE or single in northeast US which means mud, roots, rocks.

It's mostly determined by the terrain and overall grip, but I think Varg EX requires different (better) tires than the 2T/4T bike.
This is due to power delivery at low speed and low engine RPM. At higher speed, on compact terrain with decent grip it doesn't matter that much.
On steep inclines with loose rocks it matters a great deal more.
It could all be solved with clever traction control, but it seems we're not close to that.

So far I had:
- Stock Metezeler 6 days: Ok-ish until 50% of wear but after that almost no traction in tricky spots.
- Mitas Terra Force EF Super (yellow): Very similar to the Metzeler, perhaps a little worse. Both will lose traction easily. I had more wheel spin on the Varg in one ride than in years on the 2T bike.
- Mitas Terra Force EX MH Soft (green): Only one ride, and it's a 110/100. Every new tire is good, so I'm reserving judgment for now.
That's supposed to be a "replacement" for the XT 454 mentioned above. It's not too soft. Be careful in following the sales blurb of "soft, hard, gummy ". It's gotten so bad that even the manufactures don't know what it means, and I have that on good authority. Best you can do is test one or two tires and stick with what works.
(F.U. Mitas for your nomenclature that changes every year )



For the front I have no complaint and I'm still using the stock tire with most of the life still in it. I remember preferring Mitas C-19 (now EF/EX) front tire to the Micheline Enduro. I know it well and it works almost everywhere.

It's all about rear traction. Varg power output from 0 to 1/4 throttle is the same at 20-30-40-50-60PH. You just need to open the throttle more on lower HP.
If you're a flat earther riding on soil, sand or mud my opinion isn't much use. All I know is rocky hills.

If it's rock riding and max grip you're after it's hard to beat the Michelin Extreme.
It melts away though, but plenty grip.

In your case i would not go to such soft gummy. Just a soft or a medium Enduro tyre.

Considering the OP is in the US some of the options we have here in Europe might not be available or reasonably priced in the US. On the other hand I've heard good things about the IRC tires, but afaik they are hardly available in Europe so I've no experience with them. Since the Varg is heavier IMO a tire with at least some decent sidewall stability works better. The Bridgestone E50 Extreme is a great choice for the Varg.

OpaTsupa said:

- Mitas Terra Force EX MH Soft (green): Only one ride, and it's a 110/100. Every new tire is good, so I'm reserving judgment for now.

Click to expand...

The picture you posted is actually from the Mitas EX SM!

There is an EX MH that is available in SuperSoft (2x green) which is the better choice IMO - it seems not as soft as the other Mitas Enduro 2x green offerings, but still reasonably soft yet provides good stability. There is also a 120/90-18 version which is obviously wider and has bigger knobs as well for plenty of stability. Both tires have a very low profile despite the 17mm knobs and good sidewall stability. Running one on my Varg with Tubliss now.

On the front the Dunlop AT82 90/100-21 is my tire of choice for all conditions. Has the traits of the venerable MX3S paired with the durability of the MX33/34 - awesome tire, Michelin M16 mousse fits perfect.

Michael

Erwin P said:

If it's rock riding and max grip you're after it's hard to beat the Michelin Extreme.
It melts away though, but plenty grip.

In your case i would not go to such soft gummy. Just a soft or a medium Enduro tyre.

Click to expand...

Ya I agree the soft gummy would wear too much.

drehwurm68 said:

Considering the OP is in the US some of the options we have here in Europe might not be available or reasonably priced in the US. On the other hand I've heard good things about the IRC tires, but afaik they are hardly available in Europe so I've no experience with them. Since the Varg is heavier IMO a tire with at least some decent sidewall stability works better. The Bridgestone E50 Extreme is a great choice for the Varg.



The picture you posted is actually from the Mitas EX SM!

There is an EX MH that is available in SuperSoft (2x green) which is the better choice IMO - it seems not as soft as the other Mitas Enduro 2x green offerings, but still reasonably soft yet provides good stability. There is also a 120/90-18 version which is obviously wider and has bigger knobs as well for plenty of stability. Both tires have a very low profile despite the 17mm knobs and good sidewall stability. Running one on my Varg with Tubliss now.

On the front the Dunlop AT82 90/100-21 is my tire of choice for all conditions. Has the traits of the venerable MX3S paired with the durability of the MX33/34 - awesome tire, Michelin M16 mousse fits perfect.

Michael

Click to expand...

Ahh good to know that explains it. IRC is very popular here in the US among HE, enduro, and trail riders. Agree with your point about sidewall the IRC JX8 would fit the bill.

drehwurm68 said:

Considering the OP is in the US some of the options we have here in Europe might not be available or reasonably priced in the US. On the other hand I've heard good things about the IRC tires, but afaik they are hardly available in Europe so I've no experience with them. Since the Varg is heavier IMO a tire with at least some decent sidewall stability works better. The Bridgestone E50 Extreme is a great choice for the Varg.



The picture you posted is actually from the Mitas EX SM!

There is an EX MH that is available in SuperSoft (2x green) which is the better choice IMO - it seems not as soft as the other Mitas Enduro 2x green offerings, but still reasonably soft yet provides good stability. There is also a 120/90-18 version which is obviously wider and has bigger knobs as well for plenty of stability. Both tires have a very low profile despite the 17mm knobs and good sidewall stability. Running one on my Varg with Tubliss now.

On the front the Dunlop AT82 90/100-21 is my tire of choice for all conditions. Has the traits of the venerable MX3S paired with the durability of the MX33/34 - awesome tire, Michelin M16 mousse fits perfect.

Michael

Click to expand...

''The Stark is heavier''... While not untrue i don't think it matters.
The weight gap between a Stark and most 300 2 strokes is about a camel back filled with water and a hefty lunch. Rider weight differences puts that weight gap between bikes within rounding errors.

I'm also from the EU, IRC tyres are sometimes used on budget Japanese bikes here, but not much Enduro/MX of them out here. If you can find them it's just at US import prices wich are pretty steep.

I'm mostly a sand rider so don't take me for an expert, but i do 2 Hard Enduro trips a year. The Michelin Extreme worked extremely well lasted me about 6 full days of riding Hard Enduro, i think it will evaporate withing half a day of streetriding. I also used the Xgrip ''Jack the Gripper''. A bit cheaper, also very grippy but not as grippy, lasted about the same amount of time.

However don't make the mistake to buy the Mitas C02 Stoneking. It does everything well, except stones and anything solid. It however does not wear, at all.
That tyre will outlast your warranty on the bike. We use it for Dutch Off The Road season wich is pretty much fast mud and sand up to your knees with street sections with high speeds. Extreme digging grip and lasts well over 1500km.

Erwin P said:

''The Stark is heavier''... While not untrue i don't think it matters.
The weight gap between a Stark and most 300 2 strokes is about a camel back filled with water and a hefty lunch. Rider weight differences puts that weight gap between bikes within rounding errors.

I'm also from the EU, IRC tyres are sometimes used on budget Japanese bikes here, but not much Enduro/MX of them out here. If you can find them it's just at US import prices wich are pretty steep.

I'm mostly a sand rider so don't take me for an expert, but i do 2 Hard Enduro trips a year. The Michelin Extreme worked extremely well lasted me about 6 full days of riding Hard Enduro, i think it will evaporate withing half a day of streetriding. I also used the Xgrip ''Jack the Gripper''. A bit cheaper, also very grippy but not as grippy, lasted about the same amount of time.

However don't make the mistake to buy the Mitas C02 Stoneking. It does everything well, except stones and anything solid. It however does not wear, at all.
That tyre will outlast your warranty on the bike. We use it for Dutch Off The Road season wich is pretty much fast mud and sand up to your knees with street sections with high speeds. Extreme digging grip and lasts well over 1500km.

Click to expand...

Interesting. Inoue/IRC is a Japanese company so maybe they have a contract to provide tires for Japanese European export.

Most reviews here compare the IRC JX8 Gekkota to the Michelin Extreme and they mostly come down to terrain/choice and compare well. The IRC is slightly less expensive in the US and does not have the short knobs like the Michelins --I guess that is a Euro requirement. The compound on the Michelins got really good reviews too. The JX8 is considered a goto by many HE folks in the US.

It probably helps IRC that Rich Larsen works for them and does a lot of Enduro teaching videos (IRC tire guy). Old school guys probably prefer Shane Watts.

drehwurm68 said:

Considering the OP is in the US some of the options we have here in Europe might not be available or reasonably priced in the US. On the other hand I've heard good things about the IRC tires, but afaik they are hardly available in Europe so I've no experience with them. Since the Varg is heavier IMO a tire with at least some decent sidewall stability works better. The Bridgestone E50 Extreme is a great choice for the Varg.



The picture you posted is actually from the Mitas EX SM!

There is an EX MH that is available in SuperSoft (2x green) which is the better choice IMO - it seems not as soft as the other Mitas Enduro 2x green offerings, but still reasonably soft yet provides good stability. There is also a 120/90-18 version which is obviously wider and has bigger knobs as well for plenty of stability. Both tires have a very low profile despite the 17mm knobs and good sidewall stability. Running one on my Varg with Tubliss now.

On the front the Dunlop AT82 90/100-21 is my tire of choice for all conditions. Has the traits of the venerable MX3S paired with the durability of the MX33/34 - awesome tire, Michelin M16 mousse fits perfect.

Michael

Click to expand...

You must be a Mitas expert and you're correct, it's an EX SM. I saw it on sale and decided to treat myself. I'm surprised that there is not much difference in width between 140/80 and 110/100.

I won't use Mitas double green or "super/extreme soft" from Micheline/Metzeler again. Those are one race or two rides tires. I also had one bad experience after picking up a nail in the rear. The sidewall is so soft that it fell off the rim. It was even difficult to tie it down in the van.

Regarding Mitas C02 Stoneking,
I must congratulate them on this scam. Every penny pinching miser around here loves it because it has huge knobs and never wears out. That's all a they care about. It's a terrible tire and good for nothing.

I'm mildly interested in this one:

But I suspect it's just a fad with very limited application like the gummy and trial tires.


With all this talk of tires it's important to mention air pressure or other systems used inside the tires.
I use regular tubes at 0.8-0.85 Bar front and back. Anything lower than 0.7 feels sloppy to me.

OpaTsupa said:

You must be a Mitas expert and you're correct,

Click to expand...

It was pure coincidence. Usually I'm not a Mitas fan as I prefer control over pure traction and the Mitas tires always seem to have a rather soft, flexy carcass. But a friend recently recommended the EX MH 2x green and so I dug into the topic. The EX MH was formerly called the MX MH and therefor comes from the MX side which has a different sizing system in comparison to the enduro tires - thus a 120/90 EX MH (and EX SM) compares to the 140/80 Fim Enduro tires.

This EX MH 2x green is probably something comparable to the IRC gummy tires with the longer knobs. It is an interesting tire, not as extreme as the Michelin but more of a hard enduro allrounder and longer lasting. The real issue is getting ahold of the proper one - you really want the 2x green, but often get the single green shipped instead

Michael

That's exactly the problem with Mitas names and types.
It's embarrassing and confusing when you have to spell half the alphabet and primary colors to a car-tire shop who couldn't care less.
Mitas is the only tire available here and I'm lucky to get any. Front+Rear can be found for 110eur on sale which is less than for a single brand-name rear.

I had MX MH - yellow 120/90 on the Beta a year or so ago, but I can't recall anything special from that period.