2018 MXR - LACC Springhill race report

[CK696]

Hey all.

I decided last minute to race the local LACC race, here in Louisiana. Before I begin my race review, and ask a few questions, a little about myself.

I am 47 years old, and I used to race a 2015 KTM 300 XC-W. I had the suspension redone by KTM World in Georgia (they do most of the privateer GNCC guys, and specialize in the 300). On that bike, I had basically everything you could buy, for a bike. I love it. I normally race the 40B class, and finish mid pack (7-12). On a good day, I can run in the top 3 or 5. I moved down south about 5 years ago. Before that, I was a desert racer, so those are my roots. I am not as comfortable in tight woods and mud, as I am in high speed desert and dust. Most of my buddies say I take about 20 minutes to get really rolling, and I am a strong finisher.

Now the race.

As of the time I left home, I am only 30 miles and 2 hours into the bike, having ridden it once, last weekend. My plan was to arrive early, so I could practice some starts, and get a little more used to the bike. I got there about 2.5 hours before green flag. I figured I had plenty of time. Um... yeah. Owning one of these things makes you a rock star.

Signup was short and fast. Even in those 10 minutes, the bike began to draw a crowd. It took me another 20 minutes to get through all the questions, and set up my staging area (my wife and kids were on the way, so I had more than I usual bring, to make them comfortable). During camp setup, I got even more attention. I simply couldn't gear up. I let a couple of people I trust ride in through the open field where we stage, while I answer more questions. I must have had 25 people at one point, checking out the bike. It was never less than 3 or so, checking it out. Finally, about 60 minutes to green flag, I managed to get geared up, because my wife showed up, and I started paying attention to getting them setup for the day, instead of answering questions.

After gearing up, and stretching, I rode to the riders meeting. More attention, pictures, and questions. I'll admit, it was super cool. I mean come on, I'm only a B racer. We don't normally get this kind of attention. With 45 minutes to green flag, I head to the starting line, to practice some starts.

That was crazy. Talk about drawing a crowd. I ended up drag racing basically everyone, from every class. Everyone want to watch, or challenge. And of course, the bike NEVER lost. I smoked everyone to the hole. But, I will say, she is a beast to stop. It was a VERY long start straight. I am basically full speed before the 180 degree, flat track right turn, into the trees. Trying to get her to slow down was tough. After that, I did a few hundred yards at speed down a short section of trail I wasn't supposed to be on. Then I headed back to the truck, with 25 minutes to green flag.

I plugged her in to my Harbor Freight generator, and started fast charging her on 220v. I was at roughly 80-85% (maybe 90%). With 5 minutes before the pro's green flag, I was topped to 100%, and headed to the line. As I rode on the side, past the lines, it was like being a rock star. Everyone was pointing and taking pictures. I decide to race the 40C class this race, as its the very last line to leave, meaning I would have the shortest time (the leader is given the white flag at 90 minutes into the race). I wasn't in to win this race, but to check battery life, and feel the bike I real race trails.

Dead engine start (laughs), green flag drops, and I smoke everyone to the hole. My wife said I had a 8-10 bike length lead, into the beginning of the turn. There was a pileup in the first corner, I was told, as I hit the binders so hard, the second place guy (my friend Will) went down to avoid hitting me, and took a few guys with him. I feel bad for this, but that will not ahppen anymore, as I grow more comfortable with the bike, and begin to get more aggressive. Passing my wife at the 1 mile point into the race, she said I had a sizeable lead.

I catch several of the guys in earlier classes. I learned quickly, they can't hear you (obviously), and when I yell out 'whoo, whoo, whoo', it scares the crap out of them. They move over pretty quick.

Somewhere during the first lap, on a fairly quick section, I clipped a tree. I haven't cut the bars, but they 'feel' wide, compared to my 300. Most guys around here cut their bars, some as low as 27-28". Anyway, they put us through these two trees that were about 28" wide, on a slight left turn. I clipped the inside left tree, and the bike dropped from under me. By the time I got rolling again, I was in 9th or so.

I worked my way back into 5th over the race, until my right hand started to really hurt on the top of my thumb. I could tell I was getting a nasty blister there. I get blisters like everyone else, but never on the outside knuckles of my throttle thumb. I passed a ton of guys, had a blast.

The bike made it. 1hr, 18 minutes of racing, 30.7 miles according the to digital readout. The entire race I had people filming and taking pictures. Everyone was cheering me on, giving me time updates, hoping I would finish. And when I did, I was mobbed by pro guys, and all the other racers, asking how it was, and cheering for the bike and me that we finished the race. I am not the most emotional person in the world, even if my wife says I am gooey on the inside. But that was... well, lets just say I swear had dirt in my eyes, even if I was wearing goggles.

I just want to say, the dirt bike community, racing families, and everyone involved in this sport is amazing. We may bicker and argue from time to time, but overall we are all some GREAT people. This bike and this race really brought out the smiles in everyone.

So, some things I noticed, and need help on...

1. My 300 has a sub-mount Scott's stabilizer. The base is 3/4" tall, then the bar clamps are another 1" to 1.5" on top of that. The MXR bars feel like they are in my lap. My thumb has a larger blister than I've ever had, and I think part of that is because when I am standing up and attacking the course, the bars feel like the are on my belt, which causes my thumb to rub on the outside knuckle, against the grip. I've looked at bar risers already, but they all look like they are only about 1/2? taller. Anyone else feel like the bars are very low? And does anyone have a suggestion on how to get them taller? Maybe even push them out towards the front tire (I'm not sure about this).

2. The grips are flat bad for me. Not a big deal. I'll get some of the Emig style ones, with doughnut rings.

3. The suspension is kind of stiff. I can make it work, mostly. At about 1 hour into racing, I starting sitting more than standing, as I start to get tired. I can make a soft/plush suspension work when standing and I am fresh. But, I can not make a stiff suspension work when I am tired and sitting in spots I should be standing for. I race down south, where we are single line, tight trails, with nasty and chunky ruts, with tons of exposed roots. The trail ALWAYS gets destroyed at the end of races. I demo'd the 2017 in a sprint race last year, and that suspension was AWESOME for me, when I got tired at the end of a race. It felt like a trophy truck, just soaking up at the nasty roots and chunky ruts. Can anyone tell or show me how to set the 2018 suspension to be like the 2017 suspension? Or much closer to it, than where it is at now?


Well, that is about it. I ran my GoPro, and if it doesn't make me look like a complete scrub, I'll post it. Also, I'll link a TON pictures that I am sure are to appear over the next couple of days, on Facebook.

If you have an questions, please feel free to ask.



CK696
2018 Redshift MXR
Enduro Engineering Bark Buster, Warp 9 Pegs, Alta Skid Plate, Acerbis Front and Read Disk Guards, Alta Left Hand Rear Brake

 

[TCMB371]

Nice write up! I get a lot of attention as well every time I bring the bike to the track. I'm sure every Alta owner does . Hell, I even get attention with the bike in the pickup bed while driving to the track. I thought about making fliers to hand out to people because everyone seems to have the same 5 or so questions, but it's fun talking to people about the bike.

Just a note. The emig style grips will only work on the left side. The throttle tube is specific for the electric bike and odi doesn't make a throttle tube that will fit.

 

[CK696]

@TCMB371

Hey brother! Do you have a grip suggestion? I am not a fan of this.

 

[TCMB371]

I'm still running the stock grips until they wear out. What you have there is Yamaha thumb! I still have no idea why they call it that because the brand of bike makes no difference.

You need a pair of grip donuts, and maybe a better quality pair of gloves.

 

[CK696]

I want to get bar risers, but I do not know what will fit. There must be a parts compatible list, right?

Where can I find a list of compatible parts?

And the throttle tube. What manufacturer, so I can get grips that will fit?

 

[TCMB371]

Most KTM risers will work.

Here are +20mm risers : KTM 52mm Tall Bar Mounts MOJO-KTM-BRMT52BLU

Here are the chinese knockoffs for less than half the price: For KTM SX 50/65/85/105/125/144/150/200/250/380 Orange Handle Bar Riser Higher | eBay

Just note that the "ears" on the bottom side of the riser are not quite sized the same as our stock alta mounts, and they wont butt up against the raised section on the clamps, but they will still fit. You'll just need to take care when bolting them on that they are straight and aligned properly.

You could also go with the Roxx style riser that bolts to the stock bar mounts. You may need to free up the barpad display cable to allow it to raise up that far, though. You should have enough length of cable available to do it, but you'll have to try it out and see. : 1 3/4" Pivoting Handlebar Risers for 1 1/8" Handlebar.

The throttle tube is a standard size tube, so any standard glue on/ safety wire type of grip will work.

 

[Philip]

Awesome race report. Congrats with a strong finish!

I've looked at bar risers already, but they all look like they are only about 1/2? taller. Anyone else feel like the bars are very low? And does anyone have a suggestion on how to get them taller?

The bars do not seem low to me, I am 5'10". But if you want to raise them cheap, RMATVMC Tusk makes inexpensive bar risers. You will need a KTM version.
Tusk Handlebar Risers

2. The grips are flat bad for me.

The stock grips were too hard for me. I got blisters on the palms of my hands from riding in the backyard without gloves. I switched to Renthal Kevlar half-waffle. They are glue-on, so you have to buy glue as well. In order to prevent the glue from getting inside the throttle tube when installing them, I covered the end of the throttle tube with scotch tape (and a South African 5 rand coin, for luck)!

You should also buy medical tape (and band-aids, if you already have broken blisters) and tape your thumb when you ride.

3. The suspension is kind of stiff.

You are the first person on this forum who called the stock MXR suspension stiff. Well... you are using it for woods riding, so maybe it is stiff for that. Anyway, all you need to do is buy a softer rear spring, and reduce the pressure in your fork a little. The stock rear spring is 60 N/mm (6.1 kg/mm), so you will probably want to try 57 or 58, whichever you find.

 

[CK696]

Man, you guys are great. Huge thanks for all the help. Ok, I've done some thinking, and some measuring. Check this out...

First, upon more thought, I don't think the suspension is as bad as I originally suspected. At 47 years old, I normally feel the pounding of a race the next day or two after. And comparing how I feel yesterday and today, I don't feel sore at all. And then, thinking further into my racing experience, I had 'some' issues with the bike handling, but to be fair, I really think its just the bike reacting to having so much torque, and thus it rides different. I also think I was putting my feeling and pain from the developing blister, into a suspension problem. I now think this is not the case, and I'll get into that shortly. In the end, I think I can make this suspension work, with more seat time on the bike. But, I defiantly don't feel comfortable in the cockpit. and, lets get into that a bit more...

I decided to do a side by side comparison with the 2018 Alta MXR vs my 2015 KTM 300 XC-W. I've spent a couple of year fine tuning the 300, and she is about as perfect for me as I can make her. I have never felt as good in the cockpit on any of my previous bikes, and I have on the 300. So, my goal is to compare the two, and see if I can replicate that, on the MXR.

As a 25 year machinist, who runs a fabrication plant as my career, I am all about inspection, design, and measuring. So, first thing we need to do is create a baseline. I plan to put both bikes on static stands. i have two, an orange one and a black one. My black one is about 1/8' shorter. My 300 has a 1/8" skid plate, which the MXR does not. So, that means I'll put the MXR on the orange stand, and the 300 on the black stand. that should make them close enough. Then, I put a 2x4 under the front tires, as my 300 front tire is more 'front' heavy, and the MXR will sit with both tires off the ground. Then, I made sure both front axles were as aligned as I could. Here is what that looked like...



Then I began measuring. I started with the ground to the pegs, and was surprised at what I found. Here is the 300...


And here is the MXR...


As you can clearly see, the MXR pegs are a full 1" taller than my 300. That really surprised me. I did not expect such a drastic amount.

Then, I did the same with the grips, measuring from the ground to the centerline of each bikes grips. Here is my 300, with the Scott's sub-mount stabilizer...



And here is the MXR with stock bar clamps...


That is 3/4" of an inch shorter in height. But, taking into account the sub-mount, those are right about even. But, regarding my feel, that is still 3/4" lower.

So, adding the 1" taller pegs, and the 3/4" riser on the 300, that is almost 2" of height change.

I did not take pictures of how each bar lined up with each other, as they were so close I did not think it was a factor.


So, after all this, I am thinking I can get some 2" Rox bar risers, and my problem is solved, regarding my cockpit feel.

Anyone have any thoughts, or see/notice anything I may have missed? Please, I am open to any and all suggestions.

 

[Philip]

Was the Alta's rear wheel higher off the ground than the KTM's? The ground clearances are different on these two bikes. You should have shimmed the bike stands to keep all four wheels at the same height.

 

[CK696]

@Philip I did not measure that. The rear wheel is not a constant, due to the swing arm. Also, the sag was recommended at 100mm, vs 105 for my KTM.

I do see your point, that the cockpit might feel different, based on the rear wheel. I just wanted to remove as many variables as possible.

For the sake of argument, lets say the rear tire heights are not the same. If we imply that the rear wheel on the Alta is higher off the ground (which I believe it to be), then that would 'lower' the chassis, thus lowering the foot peg height, right? I can see the argument, on that. Let me know if that is what you are thinking, please.

My setup in the garage is still there, so I will be able to measure that, when I get home from work. Also, I am trying to figure out a way to determine if the bars are close to the same location on the bike, relative to the front wheel hub. It 'feels' like it is closer to my waist, when I ride. This also might contribute to the feeling of the bars being low.

Can anyone think of a way to compare the location of the bars on my 300 vs the location of the bars on my Alta?

 

[Philip]

The rear wheel is not a constant, due to the swing arm. Also, the sag was recommended at 100mm, vs 105 for my KTM.

The rear sag is adjustable, just like the fork springs preload. You have to equalize something, like assuming the two bikes have the same rebound travel. Assuming the ground clearances are the same is incorrect (because I used to own a 2015 Husky TC250, which had the same frame as your KTM, and its ground clearance and footpegs height were much higher).

If we imply that the rear wheel on the Alta is higher off the ground (which I believe it to be), then that would 'lower' the chassis, thus lowering the foot peg height, right? I can see the argument, on that. Let me know if that is what you are thinking, please.

Yes, exactly.

 

[CK696]

Ok guys, I took some more measurements. Things are getting less clear for my problem, but more clear in my comparison between the 300, and the MXR. I thought this info might help others. A huge thanks to @Philip for making me more nervous and confused.

In light of that, here we go...

Looking deeper into the ergonomics of the bikes, I started by measuring the distance off the ground of the rear tire. Now my 300 runs an 18" and the MXR runs a 19". So, I measured to the axle.

Still the same setup, here is the KTM 300 ground to rear axle...


And here is the MXR ground to rear axle...


So, accounting for the 1-3/4" height change between the ground, pegs, and bars from my earlier post, this actually puts the cockpit's of both bikes about the same, because of lowering the rear wheel, thus lowering the entire chassis closer to the ground, on the MXR.


So, I thought I would take a few more comparisons and pictures, trying to figure out why I feel the bars are so low. Next up is the centerline of the front wheel to the center of the pegs.

Here is the 300...


And here is the MXR...


I'll admit, that was a bit more than I expected. Moving my feet back 1" would cause me to lean more, bending at the waist.

Then I decided to measure from the centerline of the front wheel to the centerline of the grips.

Here is the 300...


And here is the MXR...


The bars are on the MXR are closer to the front wheel by 1" on the MXR. This is probably in direct relation to the 300 having a sub-mount.


Pegs being farther back by 1", and the 1" added height from the sub-mount on the 300 might be causing the feeling.

So, guys, any more thoughts?

On a side note, my thumb is nasty and angry looking. That's... fun.

 

[Philip]

Oh, sorry @CK696 , I almost forgot to un-confuse you!

According to your measurements, Alta has about ~1" lower ground clearance.

Ignore the 5mm difference in rear sags and 18" vs. 19" wheels. We will assume the sags are set the same, and both bikes are sitting on the ground with fully extended suspensions. This is a fair assumption.

Add about 1" of book or Racer X magazines on top of the KTM's stand to lift it higher.

Add enough of books or Racer X magazines under both front wheels, and to top of the KTM's stand, so that the bottom parts of ***all four wheels*** are hovering off the ground at exactly the same height.

Then measure everything off the ground:
1) Height of the handlebars
2) Seat height
3) Height of the footpegs
4) Wheelbase
5) The distance from the front wheel to the footpegs

If you subtract that hovering wheels' height from all the height measurements, then anyone will be able to repeat your measurement experiment and compare the numbers.

You are a measurement and fabrication professional, you can do it!

 

[CK696]

<laughs> Nicely done, @Philip . I decided to input all my calculations into AutoCad, make a quick 3d model, and then rotated each model to level, and compared the two. This does not account for the bike resting under its own weight, just hanging weight from the stand.

The cockpit is 1.1" lower when standing on the pegs (not using the seat height). This is a combination of the peg height, and the bar height. Also, I noticed the triangles formed by the front wheel hub, the bars, and the pegs form a perfect isosceles triangle (within 1/4 of a degree, or 15 minutes) on the KTM, and do not on the Alta. Based on the triangle on the Alta, I think this is directly related to the lower center of gravity. (This has turned into a very fun project and discussion in our engineering department) But, I found another difference between the two bikes...

When I took the bike to my dealer to have the LHRB installed, they also mention the bars are low bend. And the bar on my KTM are high bend. The brands are not the same (in fact, my dealer parts people had never heard of the brand of bars on the Alta), but comparing the Alta stock bar to Pro Taper High Bends, the difference is 1".

So, basically, at this point, I think there are too many variables to try and replicate one bike like the other. So, I have decided to just adjust the bar height and position, and see if it feels better when I ride. I am installing a set of Pro Taper High bend bars.

Also, I noticed the stock bars were pulled towards me 1 full notch marker that is painted on the bars (is that a degree?). And, I noticed the Alta triple tree comes with 3 bar location settings. I have decided to move them to the most forward position (about 1/2").

So, adding 1" of height with new bars, rolling them forward to the neutral position, and then moving the bar clamps to the most forward position, I will give that a try, and see how it 'feels', this weekend. Stay tuned...

 

[snydes]

Nice race write up! Good to have another metal worker in the group, it just so happens I've been cutting metal for 25 years myself. Once you get all those measurements straight in your head I'm confident you will figure out your ergo issue. I look forward to reading of your progress!