2018 MXR Suspension

[C5tor]

This week’s project was updating suspension settings. I’ve been riding the MXR with stock settings since I got it a few months ago, to get used to it. I am not a very aggressive rider, and mostly do trails with my kids. But the stock settings are pretty harsh for trail riding. No questions here, just posting some pics and documenting my suspension changes, in case someone else in my weight (230) and riding style (trails/rocks, slow, small jumps) wanted a reference.

I backed off the air pressure a bit in the forks, and backed off the compression a bit as well, and that plushed things up quite a bit up front. At least it isn’t rattling my teeth out when going over washboards and braking bumps.

Also installed Motion Pro micro bleeders up front. Handy little devices!

The rear didn’t feel too bad stock, but the stock spring is a bit too weak to hold up my fat butt properly. I couldn’t get the sag anywhere near correct. Stock spring appears to be 60N/mm or 6.1kg/mm.

Picked up a 63/6.4 spring, and that allowed me to get in the 35mm/100mm ballpark for sag. Probably should have sprung for the 6.6, but I’m not planning on doing any big MX jumps in the near future. Plus, I’ve been losing a lot of weight lately (down 30+ lbs in the last 3 months) so planning on getting down to the 200-210 lbs range in the next few months. The 6.4 should work in the long run, I think.

Anyway, that was the project this week. I did note that the whole rear subframe, including fender, number plates, mudflap, etc., only weighs 8 lbs! Amazing!

Also, the shock adjustment is SO much easier on the Alta than on my old YZ426F. No carb or airbox or coil to get in the way of the shock adjuster ring. Just a nice empty space with nothing but shock occupying it. So much simpler!

Will have to see if the spring change helps on the next ride this weekend.

 

[OneLapper]

So clean and shiny!

I forgot what they look like when new!

 

[Philip]

I have a few random comments. When you reduce the compression damping you also need to reduce the rebound damping. Else the suspension will be compressing more over bumps but will not have enough time to rebound over successive bumps and will feel harsh.

Beware of reducing the compression damping too much. You will feel the front bottoming out, but that is not a big deal. But you may have the rear blowing through the stroke over large bumps and either kicking you in the rear or deflecting sideways. Both do not feel good and can cause a crash.

Do not hesitate trying going back to the stock spring, especially if you lose more weight. I am only 20 lbs lighter than you and this is what I run everywhere. The 63N spring works for me only on smooth supercross style tracks.

I have a revalved suspension. I run the stock spring and recently the stock 154psi in the front (works for me in the sand and when trail riding). I have a travel indicator O-ring on one of the fork legs. I routinely compress the fork fully on motocross tracks. I didn't change these settings for the NE24hr Challenge, the bike felt good. But I noticed that after the 6 stints in the woods my fork never compressed fully. The O-ring was still more than 3" from the bottom. I am scratching my head, thinking I could have softened the suspension more. But a softer suspension might have slowed me down.

 

[privateer703]

I am scratching my head, thinking I could have softened the suspension more. But a softer suspension might have slowed me down.

That's why I was so slow, my suspension was too soft!!

 

[OneLapper]

I'll toss my observations into this conversations.

I softened up my suspension to prevent the front tire from washing out on roots and rocks. I installed Dal Saggio Sphere inserts on the 4CS forks, went to a lighter fork spring, and the difference was amazing. At times I think I can go faster with a stiffer setup, but really I just need to change my riding style to go faster. The bike can handle the bumps, but if I lift the tire to throttle over the bumps, the handles them with ease.

My fork oring indicator is normally a half inch from the bottom, but often fully bottomed out, after a run. I have never felt a harsh bottoming out. Ive been told this is ideal for the type of riding I do.

 

[VINSANITY]

Where

This week’s project was updating suspension settings. I’ve been riding the MXR with stock settings since I got it a few months ago, to get used to it. I am not a very aggressive rider, and mostly do trails with my kids. But the stock settings are pretty harsh for trail riding. No questions here, just posting some pics and documenting my suspension changes, in case someone else in my weight (230) and riding style (trails/rocks, slow, small jumps) wanted a reference.

I backed off the air pressure a bit in the forks, and backed off the compression a bit as well, and that plushed things up quite a bit up front. At least it isn’t rattling my teeth out when going over washboards and braking bumps.

Also installed Motion Pro micro bleeders up front. Handy little devices!

The rear didn’t feel too bad stock, but the stock spring is a bit too weak to hold up my fat butt properly. I couldn’t get the sag anywhere near correct. Stock spring appears to be 60N/mm or 6.1kg/mm.

Picked up a 63/6.4 spring, and that allowed me to get in the 35mm/100mm ballpark for sag. Probably should have sprung for the 6.6, but I’m not planning on doing any big MX jumps in the near future. Plus, I’ve been losing a lot of weight lately (down 30+ lbs in the last 3 months) so planning on getting down to the 200-210 lbs range in the next few months. The 6.4 should work in the long run, I think.

Anyway, that was the project this week. I did note that the whole rear subframe, including fender, number plates, mudflap, etc., only weighs 8 lbs! Amazing!

Also, the shock adjustment is SO much easier on the Alta than on my old YZ426F. No carb or airbox or coil to get in the way of the shock adjuster ring. Just a nice empty space with nothing but shock occupying it. So much simpler!

Will have to see if the spring change helps on the next ride this weekend.

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This week’s project was updating suspension settings. I’ve been riding the MXR with stock settings since I got it a few months ago, to get used to it. I am not a very aggressive rider, and mostly do trails with my kids. But the stock settings are pretty harsh for trail riding. No questions here, just posting some pics and documenting my suspension changes, in case someone else in my weight (230) and riding style (trails/rocks, slow, small jumps) wanted a reference.

I backed off the air pressure a bit in the forks, and backed off the compression a bit as well, and that plushed things up quite a bit up front. At least it isn’t rattling my teeth out when going over washboards and braking bumps.

Also installed Motion Pro micro bleeders up front. Handy little devices!

The rear didn’t feel too bad stock, but the stock spring is a bit too weak to hold up my fat butt properly. I couldn’t get the sag anywhere near correct. Stock spring appears to be 60N/mm or 6.1kg/mm.

Picked up a 63/6.4 spring, and that allowed me to get in the 35mm/100mm ballpark for sag. Probably should have sprung for the 6.6, but I’m not planning on doing any big MX jumps in the near future. Plus, I’ve been losing a lot of weight lately (down 30+ lbs in the last 3 months) so planning on getting down to the 200-210 lbs range in the next few months. The 6.4 should work in the long run, I think.

Anyway, that was the project this week. I did note that the whole rear subframe, including fender, number plates, mudflap, etc., only weighs 8 lbs! Amazing!

Also, the shock adjustment is SO much easier on the Alta than on my old YZ426F. No carb or airbox or coil to get in the way of the shock adjuster ring. Just a nice empty space with nothing but shock occupying it. So much simpler!

Will have to see if the spring change helps on the next ride this weekend.

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Where did you purchase the spring from.

 

[VINSANITY]

This week’s project was updating suspension settings. I’ve been riding the MXR with stock settings since I got it a few months ago, to get used to it. I am not a very aggressive rider, and mostly do trails with my kids. But the stock settings are pretty harsh for trail riding. No questions here, just posting some pics and documenting my suspension changes, in case someone else in my weight (230) and riding style (trails/rocks, slow, small jumps) wanted a reference.

I backed off the air pressure a bit in the forks, and backed off the compression a bit as well, and that plushed things up quite a bit up front. At least it isn’t rattling my teeth out when going over washboards and braking bumps.

Also installed Motion Pro micro bleeders up front. Handy little devices!

The rear didn’t feel too bad stock, but the stock spring is a bit too weak to hold up my fat butt properly. I couldn’t get the sag anywhere near correct. Stock spring appears to be 60N/mm or 6.1kg/mm.

Picked up a 63/6.4 spring, and that allowed me to get in the 35mm/100mm ballpark for sag. Probably should have sprung for the 6.6, but I’m not planning on doing any big MX jumps in the near future. Plus, I’ve been losing a lot of weight lately (down 30+ lbs in the last 3 months) so planning on getting down to the 200-210 lbs range in the next few months. The 6.4 should work in the long run, I think.

Anyway, that was the project this week. I did note that the whole rear subframe, including fender, number plates, mudflap, etc., only weighs 8 lbs! Amazing!

Also, the shock adjustment is SO much easier on the Alta than on my old YZ426F. No carb or airbox or coil to get in the way of the shock adjuster ring. Just a nice empty space with nothing but shock occupying it. So much simpler!

Will have to see if the spring change helps on the next ride this weekend.

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View attachment 3562
View attachment 3563

Where did you purchase the spring from

 

[C5tor]

Where did you purchase the spring from

I bought the spring from fellow AOF member @TCMB371. Evidently one of the extra pieces from Nate Adams’ bike. (I suddenly have this itch to backflip the bike, not sure if it is related...).

It is a Factory Connection ALA-0064 spring, 6.4 kg/mm. Looks like it fits various models of 2012-2013 KTM bikes.

 

[Philip]

You can buy a stock MX 63 N/mm spring from someone here who has changed their spring rates. @OneLapper probably has one laying around.

 

[C5tor]

Okay, I learned something interesting about the air forks this week. I've been battling with the front AER 48 forks for a long time now. The forks are much harsher than the rear shock, and they just aren't balanced between front/rear. I've been trying to soften them up for trail riding for a while now, and they are just way too harsh. Braking bumps and washboards were literally beating me up, especially on steep downhills.

Yet everyone was raving about how versatile these forks are in all of these articles I read. I tried moving the clickers, I tried dropping the air pressure, but still super harsh. I really didn't want to drop a ton of $$$ on re-valving forks that are supposed to work well for my type of riding. By contrast, the 4CS forks on my son's MX is nice and plush and well-suited to trail riding (if a bit soft for MX).

Basically, I've found that the manual is pretty useless when it comes to suspension settings advice. I looked at KTM manuals as well, and it wasn't much more useful. It talks only about an average 175 lbs. rider. It tells what the standard pressure is. And it also says that standard compression setting is 13 clicks out, 11 is "firm" and 15 is "plush". So much unhelpful BS, in my opinion. I don't need to know how to make if fast for some teenage hooligan launching 100 ft. whips on some MX track. I just need to know how to make it comfy for a slow, inexperienced, uncoordinated, fat man riding ridiculously bumpy trails, damn it!

But now I find out I've made some incorrect assumptions about these forks all along. This might have been obvious to others, but I thought I'd mention this because I was totally unaware of a couple aspects of these forks.

I was digging around a bit more on how to plush up the AER48 for enduro-type riding rather than motocross, and found an interesting article. It basically said that you only use the air pressure to hold up the bike, NOT to stiffen/soften the suspension. PSI only determines where in the stroke the forks stay, and should be set for your weight. Only then do you use the clickers to adjust the feel.

But then I happened upon the other piece of info that had somehow completely escaped me: The AER48 clickers have 38 clicks available!!!

Are you f'ing kidding me? Mind blown! Why didn't anyone ever mention this? Setting the compression at 15 for "plush" wasn't even using half of the adjustment! I had previously set my compression at 18 thinking that was about as high (or low, depending on how you think of it) the compression should go. But then I found an article talking about testing the AER48 on a new model bike, and they were talking about some guys using 5 clicks out, and some using 30 clicks out, just depending on riding style, terrain, etc.

So, I used a Race Tech calculator, and it suggested using 160psi for my weight, experience, advanced age, political affiliations, chunkiness, and riding style. Then I backed the compression out to 30 and rebound to 20, and finally got to test it today. Holy cow! So much plusher! It went over bumps easier, stayed planted in corners, and going downhill was so much less tiring. Also, with the higher PSI, it wasn't bottoming over the big stuff, but it seemed to still be using most of the fork travel.

Anyway, I thought I'd pass this on for those of you who did not really grasp the full extent of the adjustability of these forks in stock form. All they had to say was something like "clickers go from 0 (full firm) to 38 (full soft)." But that was too straight forward. Obviously, not everyone will want to go that soft on the compression. But for my situation, it made a tremendous, and long overdue, difference. Let me know if I'm the only one too stupid to know that the clickers went out to thirty-f'ing-eight, let alone above twenty. Sheesh! I feel like such a doofus for not figuring this out sooner.

 

[standbyu]

Okay, I learned something interesting about the air forks this week. I've been battling with the front AER 48 forks for a long time now. The forks are much harsher than the rear shock, and they just aren't balanced between front/rear. I've been trying to soften them up for trail riding for a while now, and they are just way too harsh. Braking bumps and washboards were literally beating me up, especially on steep downhills.

Yet everyone was raving about how versatile these forks are in all of these articles I read. I tried moving the clickers, I tried dropping the air pressure, but still super harsh. I really didn't want to drop a ton of $$$ on re-valving forks that are supposed to work well for my type of riding. By contrast, the 4CS forks on my son's MX is nice and plush and well-suited to trail riding (if a bit soft for MX).

Basically, I've found that the manual is pretty useless when it comes to suspension settings advice. I looked at KTM manuals as well, and it wasn't much more useful. It talks only about an average 175 lbs. rider. It tells what the standard pressure is. And it also says that standard compression setting is 13 clicks out, 11 is "firm" and 15 is "plush". So much unhelpful BS, in my opinion. I don't need to know how to make if fast for some teenage hooligan launching 100 ft. whips on some MX track. I just need to know how to make it comfy for a slow, inexperienced, uncoordinated, fat man riding ridiculously bumpy trails, damn it!

But now I find out I've made some incorrect assumptions about these forks all along. This might have been obvious to others, but I thought I'd mention this because I was totally unaware of a couple aspects of these forks.

I was digging around a bit more on how to plush up the AER48 for enduro-type riding rather than motocross, and found an interesting article. It basically said that you only use the air pressure to hold up the bike, NOT to stiffen/soften the suspension. PSI only determines where in the stroke the forks stay, and should be set for your weight. Only then do you use the clickers to adjust the feel.

But then I happened upon the other piece of info that had somehow completely escaped me: The AER48 clickers have 38 clicks available!!! id

Are you f'ing kidding me? Mind blown! Why didn't anyone ever mention this? Setting the compression at 15 for "plush" wasn't even using half of the adjustment! I had previously set my compression at 18 thinking that was about as high (or low, depending on how you think of it) the compression should go. But then I found an article talking about testing the AER48 on a new model bike, and they were talking about some guys using 5 clicks out, and some using 30 clicks out, just depending on riding style, terrain, etc.

So, I used a Race Tech calculator, and it suggested using 160psi for my weight, experience, advanced age, political affiliations, chunkiness, and riding style. Then I backed the compression out to 30 and rebound to 20, and finally got to test it today. Holy cow! So much plusher! It went over bumps easier, stayed planted in corners, and going downhill was so much less tiring. Also, with the higher PSI, it wasn't bottoming over the big stuff, but it seemed to still be using most of the fork travel.

Anyway, I thought I'd pass this on for those of you who did not really grasp the full extent of the adjustability of these forks in stock form. All they had to say was something like "clickers go from 0 (full firm) to 38 (full soft)." But that was too straight forward. Obviously, not everyone will want to go that soft on the compression. But for my situation, it made a tremendous, and long overdue, difference. Let me know if I'm the only one too stupid to know that the clickers went out to thirty-f'ing-eight, let alone above twenty. Sheesh! I feel like such a doofus for not figuring this out sooner.

Keep in mind the clicker is a valving bypass whether fork or shock. For old slow guys like us this is a mute point and we won't notice so just blowing oil back and forth through the bypass hole will work but for those who push the limits they will want as much low, mid and high speed damping control as possible. In those guys case the forks must be revalved. The fewer clicks out from closed the more oil goes through the valving providing more control over terrain.

 

[Philip]

Like @standbyu said, the clickers are just the size of the hole that bypasses the piston with all the shims. If your clickers are on full-soft, but your suspension is still harsh, then you need a revalve. Likewise, if your clickers are on full-stiff, but your suspension bottoms out, then you also need a revalve.

 

[synics]

Like @standbyu said, the clickers are just the size of the hole that bypasses the piston with all the shims. If your clickers are on full-soft, but your suspension is still harsh, then you need a revalve. Likewise, if your clickers are on full-stiff, but your suspension bottoms out, then you also need a revalve.

Slightly off topic but what line do you run your forks at in the triple tree clamps? Mine are at the second line, and I know on my KTM 350 I have it on the first line... I think I should move it up a line?

 

[Philip]

Slightly off topic but what line do you run your forks at in the triple tree clamps? Mine are at the second line, and I know on my KTM 350 I have it on the first line... I think I should move it up a line?

The forks on my Precision Concepts revalved bike are on the second line. The forks on my KTM World revalved bike are flush. I haven't experimented with the fork height much.

The rear ride sag is 90mm on both bikes. I have experimented with sag and found 90mm to be a good number on hardpack tracks. An 80mm sag causes power oversteer, whereas a 100mm sag causes power understeer.

 

[synics]

The forks on my Precision Concepts revalved bike are on the second line. The forks on my KTM World revalved bike are flush. I haven't experimented with the fork height much.

The rear ride sag is 90mm on both bikes. I have experimented with sag and found 90mm to be a good number on hardpack tracks. An 80mm sag causes power oversteer, whereas a 100mm sag causes power understeer.

So my MXR handles whoops totally better than my 2017 ktm 350 xcf that was recently revalved with racetech gold valves. The Alta just skips over them which is great and I cannot do that on the KTM, which I wish I could. All stock settings on the Alta at like 75 hours now. I notice that I usually have 3 inches of travel left on the Alta forks all the time as well. Never gets close to bottoming out. However, the Alta is harsh as hell in the braking bumps and chop for sure. If I adjust the clickers to compensate is that going to reduce the capability of skipping over those whoops? And how can I adjust the setting son the 350 so that it can hit the whoops like the Alta?