24 Hour Race Equipment/Logistics/Stratiges Considerations


bluefxstc

Well-known member
Likes
887
Location
Boise, ID, United States
Having never been involved in a 24 hour race, I thought a thread on specialized equipment and logistics necessary for a 24 hour race on an Alta, might be beneficial. There is a lot of racing experience on the forum so trying to pool the knowledge to give everyone a leg up and help ensure a good showing at the races.

Lighting:
In post number 26 of the Perry Mountain 24 Hour Challenge thread @snydes gave a good summary of the lighting options available from Tusk Racing. Anyone know about another manufacture of lighting that might be appropriate? Maybe @Judaslefourbe or @datadog can chime in on what 12V circuits are available on the MX, EX, MXR and EXR and any software limitations on the use of the circuits?

Charging Power:
Most of the teams seem to be 5 or 6 riders. With one rider on the track that is 4-5 Alta's charging all the time. That is a lot of power. 4 Alta's with a standard charger is 10Kw or 42A at 240Vac. 5 bikes is 12.5Kw and 52A. With the fast charge option at 3.3 kw, 4 bikes is 13.2Kw/55A and 5 bikes is 16.5Kw/69A. Throw in charging lights, lights for the pit area and other electrical needs and you have some pretty high power needs. Even with a 50A RV circuit you are going to need some generators to keep everything running. If every rider rides for an hour that mean one hour riding and 4-5 hours resting. If each bike takes 2-3 hours to charge, you probably don't need a charger for each bike, but the team still needs a lot of power to keep everything going.

Pit area:
I have not done any racing since the late 70s, (yep getting older, but not old yet :LOL:) so I will let others speak as to what works, what is necessary, what doesn't work...

Race Strategy:
In team racing, what is the best rider strategy. Obviously the lap length will have an impact on this but how often do you switch riders and what is the impact of having an electric bike? Should one rider ride for an hour then switch? Ride until the bike is 25-50% charge left? Do you change the strategy at night vs day?

Riding Gear:
Given the 24 hour nature of the race you are gong to need more riding gear for the race. The gear you wear in the afternoon is not going to be appropriate at 3AM. Any proven strategies or concerns to deal with this?

Bike Prep/Setup/Gear:
Maintenance for the pits other than charging? Prep for the bike before the race? Would a GPS be helpful, especially at night, to give you an idea of what is coming with limited night visibility? Any changes to bike setup for night vs day?

Race Prep:
@leeo45 discussed in the Perry Mountain 24 Hour Challenge the need to go out and trail ride at night using the lighting you will have on the race. It is whole different picture at night. What other specialized riding prep would be beneficial for a 24 hour race?

Other Concerns/Ideas:
I know from flying at night it can take up to 20 minutes for your eyes to night adapt and only a few seconds to destroy night adaptation so you probably want to have a way to protect the next riders night vision to give him/her the best vision when they start riding at night. What else?

What am I missing? I haven't' done any racing in a long time and have never done a 24 hour race so what is needed? If I do something like this I would like to be prepared and minimize the "I wish I would have brought that or thought of that". There is a lot of experience on the forum, and even some people who have 24 hour race experience, so what are the must haves, nice to have, and the sounds good but really didn't work? My goal would be to develop a checklist for the teams to use to make sure they show up with everything they need and have a good strategy during the race.
 

Silent But Dirty

Alta North
Likes
391
Location
Canada
With all the power concerns, maybe renting one of the tow-behind diesel generators wood be a better way to go. Depending on price of course.
 

snydes

Moderator
Staff member
Likes
2,797
Location
Pennsylvania
Probably would benefit from the fans that Alta is recommending to keep the heat down in the battery from continental charging.
 

snydes

Moderator
Staff member
Likes
2,797
Location
Pennsylvania
I just spoke with a buddy who has some experience with this lighting. When I asked him about what we were planning and that we needed appropriate lighting the first words out of his mouth were "Task Racing". He claims they do a lot of events and their stuff is top notch. According to him their 10" light bar throws an impressive amount of light. The standard mounting is to attach tabs to the inside ends of a bark buster style aluminum hand guard. From talking to him I also got the impression that the two light helmet light system is preferable, unfortunately also twice the price.
 

MrTaskRacing

Well-known member
Likes
120
Location
Plymouth, MA
Having never been involved in a 24 hour race, I thought a thread on specialized equipment and logistics necessary for a 24 hour race on an Alta, might be beneficial. There is a lot of racing experience on the forum so trying to pool the knowledge to give everyone a leg up and help ensure a good showing at the races.

Lighting:
In post number 26 of the Perry Mountain 24 Hour Challenge thread @snydes gave a good summary of the lighting options available from Tusk Racing. Anyone know about another manufacture of lighting that might be appropriate? Maybe @Judaslefourbe or @datadog can chime in on what 12V circuits are available on the MX, EX, MXR and EXR and any software limitations on the use of the circuits?

Charging Power:
Most of the teams seem to be 5 or 6 riders. With one rider on the track that is 4-5 Alta's charging all the time. That is a lot of power. 4 Alta's with a standard charger is 10Kw or 42A at 240Vac. 5 bikes is 12.5Kw and 52A. With the fast charge option at 3.3 kw, 4 bikes is 13.2Kw/55A and 5 bikes is 16.5Kw/69A. Throw in charging lights, lights for the pit area and other electrical needs and you have some pretty high power needs. Even with a 50A RV circuit you are going to need some generators to keep everything running. If every rider rides for an hour that mean one hour riding and 4-5 hours resting. If each bike takes 2-3 hours to charge, you probably don't need a charger for each bike, but the team still needs a lot of power to keep everything going.

Pit area:
I have not done any racing since the late 70s, (yep getting older, but not old yet :LOL:) so I will let others speak as to what works, what is necessary, what doesn't work...

Race Strategy:
In team racing, what is the best rider strategy. Obviously the lap length will have an impact on this but how often do you switch riders and what is the impact of having an electric bike? Should one rider ride for an hour then switch? Ride until the bike is 25-50% charge left? Do you change the strategy at night vs day?

Riding Gear:
Given the 24 hour nature of the race you are gong to need more riding gear for the race. The gear you wear in the afternoon is not going to be appropriate at 3AM. Any proven strategies or concerns to deal with this?

Bike Prep/Setup/Gear:
Maintenance for the pits other than charging? Prep for the bike before the race? Would a GPS be helpful, especially at night, to give you an idea of what is coming with limited night visibility? Any changes to bike setup for night vs day?

Race Prep:
@leeo45 discussed in the Perry Mountain 24 Hour Challenge the need to go out and trail ride at night using the lighting you will have on the race. It is whole different picture at night. What other specialized riding prep would be beneficial for a 24 hour race?

Other Concerns/Ideas:
I know from flying at night it can take up to 20 minutes for your eyes to night adapt and only a few seconds to destroy night adaptation so you probably want to have a way to protect the next riders night vision to give him/her the best vision when they start riding at night. What else?

What am I missing? I haven't' done any racing in a long time and have never done a 24 hour race so what is needed? If I do something like this I would like to be prepared and minimize the "I wish I would have brought that or thought of that". There is a lot of experience on the forum, and even some people who have 24 hour race experience, so what are the must haves, nice to have, and the sounds good but really didn't work? My goal would be to develop a checklist for the teams to use to make sure they show up with everything they need and have a good strategy during the race.


TASK RACING:
When you are ready to organize a Team, I can help. This is an exciting project I'm happy to help sponsor a full Alta Motorcycle team with some discounted/sponsored lighting . I attend this race every year, so it would be really fun to see. This year we saw an Alta pull the hole shot by like 5 bike lengths, which was eye opening! Talked with Steve a bit, and I can steer you guys the right way on your bike and helmet light set ups. Just reach out with a representative of the Team, and I'm open to a conference call or just giving you a sponsored team discount under a specific coupon code on my website and you guys can order on your own. Task Racing is THE RACERS CHOICE -- this is what we do--24hr racing and night racing/riding. We have the set ups, we just need to figure out what is best for you. At race pace, one helmet light and one light bar is enough light to get you around the track at race pace, at least with our products;-)
Let me know if you need any help. Feel free to reach out via phone or email. Happy to help gents! Cheers, Mark Slover at Task Racing
 

Philip

Administrator
Staff member
Likes
4,217
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ
I thought I already had something from Task Racing. And when I saw the logo, I thought it looked familiar.

Sure enough, I have their Moto Adventure Helmet Light Package. I bought it at the AIMExpo in Orlando two years ago, probably from Mark Slover MrTaskRacing himself. :)

I have yet to test it though. I used to do 2-hour mountain bike rides after work twice a week, year round. My two Chinese-made bike lights were bright enough but unreliable, so I thought I would try something more serious. But I developed some health and sleep issues, and haven't done any nighttime riding since. But I am better now, so I will be giving this product a good test, hopefully very soon! Thank you, Mark!
 

MrTaskRacing

Well-known member
Likes
120
Location
Plymouth, MA
Great! And yes that was me in Orlando! Well, the light should work fine, but likely your batteries are drained down to nothing.
Part of the Lithium Ion technology, if you don't use em, you lose em. The batteries may need to be replaced at some point.
Sitting dormant for 2 years, they are probably very depleted. When you bought it from me they were only 20% charged!
Glad you are better, now go have some fun out there!!! You may need to call me to order another battery though ;-)
Cheers,
Mark Slover- Task Racing
 

OneLapper

"You don't *really* need the water pump...."
Forum's Sponsor
Likes
990
Location
Connecticut
Looks like a minute or more per pit stop can be saved if we have an efficient way of mounting and then moving the transponder from bike to bike. Looks like one transponder is used per team so it needs to be moved from bike to bike. It took over a minute to cut zip ties, install wire, then attach it to the next bike to go out in the video I watched.

Over 24 hours that 18 minutes (given 45 minutes laps, one lap per rider change)

If we can eek out two laps per rider, and lower the lap times, that changes the numbers. But from the endurance racing I've done it's all about keeping moving!
 

leeo45

Geezer in denial
Likes
576
Location
Lake Hartwell, SC
I'd like to know too snydes as it could also be a real consideration if you have to be an AMA member. Won't have my Alta till next year but I sure would enjoy being part of these team races.

You will probably just need to look at the detailed rules and entry form for each specific event. The 24 hour races are not part of a national series so each sponsoring club can organize things their own way. Most often the AMA membership requirement is dependent on how the club is handling insurance.

Here are the rules for the 2018 Perry Mountain race: PMMC 24 Hour Challenge I didn't see anything about an AMA membership requirement, but I could have missed it.
 

snydes

Moderator
Staff member
Likes
2,797
Location
Pennsylvania
I'd like to know too snydes as it could also be a real consideration if you have to be an AMA member. Won't have my Alta till next year but I sure would enjoy being part of these team races.

The races are not till summer so you just might be able to!
 

Rob41

Chief Engineer
Likes
66
Location
Northern Michigan
You will probably just need to look at the detailed rules and entry form for each specific event. The 24 hour races are not part of a national series so each sponsoring club can organize things their own way. Most often the AMA membership requirement is dependent on how the club is handling insurance.

Here are the rules for the 2018 Perry Mountain race: PMMC 24 Hour Challenge I didn't see anything about an AMA membership requirement, but I could have missed it.

That makes sense. I think an AMA membership would be in my best interest.

bluefxstc, great template. I'll be watching this thread with much interest!
 

Redwolf

My dog thinks I'm cool
Likes
1,677
Location
Brinnon, Wa.
In review of our charging concerns, it was funny that at the starvation ridge race we just finished, one 5.5Kw unit was all we needed to keep 6 bikes on the track for the entire race. Seems like much more would just be overkill.
 

Philip

Administrator
Staff member
Likes
4,217
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ
The weather must have been cold. In the middle of the summer, during the day, we needed to charge 3 bikes at once. And it could get worse if there are more A-pack bikes than R-pack bikes.
 
Similar threads

Similar threads

Top Bottom