Alta Custom Build

[chris chapman]

Hi, I'm looking for some help and guidance,

I've managed to aquire an alta rolling chassis with a motor, gears etc. and Igbt module and was hoping to do a build a custom bike with any parts I can lay my hands on.

I can build a battery to suit, make a subframe etc. but can anyone tell me what other electronics / controls I would need to get the motor running?

I presume a control module is needed to interface with the Igbt module?

Wiring diagram would be handy too.

Thanks in advance Chris

 

[Judaslefourbe]

What's the model and last digits of the VIN?

 

[chris chapman]

I've just purchased off ebay as it seemed like a reasonable deal, believed to be an MXR, i have a shock, forks wheels ect. from a ktm, i will probably fabricate a subframe or adapt from a crf.
i have a Mitsubishi PM300CL Module that fits the mounting, i believe this is what alta used but i cant seem to find any more info

 

[Philip]

You could buy the rest of the bike from Liquid Performance. They have almost all the parts. You'd have to find an Alta battery though for the stock inverter to work.

Alternatively, you could contact the manufacturer of the motor, and maybe they would recommend a user-programmable controller/inverter for you.

Or, maybe someone here knows of a compatible off-the-shelf inverter that can be shoehorned into the Alta frame.

 

[TeslaRaptor]

I've just purchased off ebay as it seemed like a reasonable deal, believed to be an MXR, i have a shock, forks wheels ect. from a ktm, i will probably fabricate a subframe or adapt from a crf.
i have a Mitsubishi PM300CL Module that fits the mounting, i believe this is what alta used but i cant seem to find any more info

This is a HUGE project....I would love to follow the build process.....so please do keep updating the thread as the build evolves.

 

[Philip]

I have another Idea. See If you could adapt the AEM controler:

AEM EV Launches aemev.com

 

[Brent421]

View attachment 6289
I've just purchased off ebay as it seemed like a reasonable deal, believed to be an MXR, i have a shock, forks wheels ect. from a ktm, i will probably fabricate a subframe or adapt from a crf.
i have a Mitsubishi PM300CL Module that fits the mounting, i believe this is what alta used but i cant seem to find any more info

You can also buy the subframe off the eBay liquid performance store

 

[enjoythesilenc]

What igbt did you get, the one from liquid performance?.

 

[chris chapman]

What igbt did you get, the one from liquid performance?.

No I can buy one from mitsubishi electric UK as we already do business with them, I'm just waiting to see if they can supply the control module to suit

 

[enjoythesilenc]

Ok great keep us posted on that. The status of Alta bikes is that you have to have the entire electrical hardware and software package to result in a working bike. None of the electrical modules nor access to the software is/are available.

I'm in the same boat as you even though I have an entire bike. There are probably a handful of others who would benefit from discovering a path forward.

We are starting with a motor that is wound for high voltage/high speed. I assume yours came with the position sensor. From there we have to build a control system from the ground up.

 

[chris chapman]

Ok great keep us posted on that. The status of Alta bikes is that you have to have the entire electrical hardware and software package to result in a working bike. None of the electrical modules nor access to the software is/are available.

I'm in the same boat as you even though I have an entire bike. There are probably a handful of others who would benefit from discovering a path forward.

We are starting with a motor that is wound for high voltage/high speed. I assume yours came with the position sensor. From there we have to build a control system from the ground up.

I've found a couple of options, I'll keep you posted, I have found a bms that I can use 5 X 16s modules in series with can interface, I just need to select the right controller now really

 

[privateer703]

We're putting together a list of bikes so we can track issues, would you mind giving us the last 3 digits on the VIN so we can add it to our spreadsheet? It would be helpful!

 

[YDW_Eric]

I just joined here. I'm interested in building a ground up bike also, using the motor as a basis. It is a nice light motor for the power and it includes a gear reduction box.

I would be building something streetable, like a supermoto. The version by Walt Siegl is inspiration for what I have in mind. I may also build it around a rolling Hawk GT chassis.

How does the cooling work? Does it need a pump?

That ebay seller is in Michigan, a couple of hours from me.

Sounds like from reading some posts that more or less the whole control system is needed. But I think I can design something from readily available parts. Don't really want to use hard to find parts, although the motor is one of the best components off the bike.

 

[snydes]

There is a small pump for the cooling system.

Keep us posted! Excited to see one of these “Alta DIY” efforts. Sorta surprised nobody did one yet.

 

[Mark911]

The biggest issue is getting a 300-350v controller/inverter setup that'll work with that motor (at least at a reasonable size/weight/price). Most of the high voltage stuff commercially available is for EV Cars and way too big. The IGBT Module is only part of the controller solution. If you know of a 300-350v 30-50kw controller that'll work in this application for less than 5 grand I'd be really interested in knowing more.

 

[YDW_Eric]

Is the IGBT fed by the controller? If so, the controller can be smaller in power. Is the IGBT module heatsinked? Anybody have a schematic or at least a wiring diagram? If the motor controller is a 2 piece design, then it's somewhat custom for this application. Yes, I only work on EVs at work. So size is not so much an issue.

 

[Philip]

@YDW_Eric -- We are probably neighbors April through November. I will send you a PM.

Anybody have a schematic or at least a wiring diagram?

I am sure Mark911 has it, but he made it himself, therefore we can't have it! But Mark likes answering intelligent questions asked by intelligent people, so you should persist!

 

[Mark911]

Is the IGBT fed by the controller? If so, the controller can be smaller in power. Is the IGBT module heatsinked? Anybody have a schematic or at least a wiring diagram? If the motor controller is a 2 piece design, then it's somewhat custom for this application. Yes, I only work on EVs at work. So size is not so much an issue.

Details about the Alta controller wont help. It's a proprietary design and you'd need to re-create the entire Alta electrical/electronic system for it to function properly. Might as well buy an entire complete bike at that point, lol. You need to find a good PMAC 300-400v 30-50kw/hr FOC/SVM based controller with Sin/Cosin input capable of driving that motor to over 12,000 rpm. It needs "on the fly" restart ability or similar circuitry as well so it doesn't over-current fault when landing from jumps with the tire spinning (or other similar conditions). If you think your IGBT module will work, it'll need to be able to drive that module (hopefully electrically isolated as well for safety) and the IGBT module itself will need to be cooled passively or actively.

I've yet to see such a devise optimized for use in a motorcycle, either as a complete controller with it's own inverter or as a separate drive unit, at least not for under $5k. Not saying one doesn't exsist, just that I'm not aware of one. For example, Sevcon makes several HV controllers (speed control plus inverter) that might work as well as Cascadia, but they're pricy.

Yes, the actual internal operating voltage is much lower -like 6-12v, in most every controller as they'll use a DCDC downconverter at the front end. However, they're all rated by the battery bus voltage they can handle which is dictated by how the motor was wound. The Alta motor was designed for 300v nominal.

 

[Robinhood]

I found the perfect controller for mine I got super lucky and found a original Alta inverter. But need a pin out or I’ll have to pin trace from ic part numbers and schematics which is a daunting task. Are there any bulletproof schismatic floating around in diy land? Thanks in advance

 

[Mark911]

I found the perfect controller for mine I got super lucky and found a original Alta inverter. But need a pin out or I’ll have to pin trace from ic part numbers and schematics which is a daunting task. Are there any bulletproof schismatic floating around in diy land? Thanks in advance

Robinhood, are you in Lakewood Ca (by bellflower/long beach etc)? If so, I'm just down the road in Corona now (I've lived in Lakewood, Bellflower and Long Beach before I retired). There's so many challenges in what you and Chris are trying to do . . . some can be worked around but others can't. I've probably got 95% of the knowledge you're looking for but I'd need to know exactly what you have to determine if the project is feasible.