Alta kit bike

[Judaslefourbe]

I do not recommend using that video for reference. The bike we ended up manufacturing was completely different.

 

[privateer703]

Oh no, I'm saying you very well COULD. Just wanted to state my OPINION that it might not be the safest idea.

 

[Matt]

I think the most attractive option from a consumer standpoint would be a kit that was the drive train that could be installed on an ICE bike. Not that I think having a frame would be a bad idea. I just believe there would be more demand for the drive train alone and a mounting system for other frames.

 

[Sumik]

From the trade fair Amper in Brno today. REV X enduro bike. 17 kW peak forced aircooled motor, battery 2.9 kWh, 52 kg (115 lbs) total weight with battery. Battery replace in 1 minute.

 

[F451]

Can someone give me the cliff notes version of why the Alta frame is such a large and bulky looking unit? Someone mentioned thermal conductivity that draws heat away from the batteries. Is this a large factor in the design of the frame?

I know nothing about metal fabrication, so forgive my ignorance on the matter.

When I first learned about the Alta's I was very surprised to see what looked like a very large and expensive frame to produce. I have been wondering why they did not use what I image is a relatively simple to produce cro-moly frame like KTM for example. Light, and I think relatively simple to produce, easier to make design changes, easier to weld, etc. Again, I know nothing of the design and manufacturing of these frames, so just speculating on all that.

If the frame itself acts as a giant heat sink that would explain it I guess. I know Buell used their swingarms on their XB series bikes as an oil "tank" and as a heat sink of sorts.

 

[F451]

For a kit bike, if you're trying to emulate what a modern dirt bike does, it would seem to make sense to copy as much of the existing proven technology and design that already exists and build off of that. Unless you want to completely re invent the wheel, which of course is insanely expensive and the chances of success are slim.

The bike above sounds interesting from a performance point of view, but I can't think of a single dirt bike customer who would buy something like that if they wanted to use it as a dirt bike.

There's a reason the best of the current ICE bikes look the way they do, its because that configuration works and has been honed over years and years of trial and error, and now modern computer aided design.

I think Alta was smart to keep their dirt bikes looking pretty much like a standard modern ICE dirt bike, easier adoption by customers, and taking advantage of proven designs. Then make changes and improvements over time.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

Can someone give me the cliff notes version of why the Alta frame is such a large and bulky looking unit? Someone mentioned thermal conductivity that draws heat away from the batteries. Is this a large factor in the design of the frame?

1 - It looks awesome
2 - The frame has to handle different forces than on a ICE bike on an MX track
3 - It looks awesome
4 - It is indeed part of the cooling system (coolant runs on the inside of the side panels of the frame)
5 - It looks awesome
6 - We wanted to fare better than ICE bikes frame because we expected the life of the motorcycle to be much longer (twice?) as a normal dirtbike
7 - It looks awesome
8 - Like most first generation products, it is over-engineered and could have been made lighter/better (now that we proved it can handle the business)
9 - It looks effin' awesome

 

[rayivers]

CRF2eR kit bike (prototype):

 

[Arlin Sansome]

CRF2eR kit bike (prototype):

View attachment 2674

Whats the specs? You need at least 6kwh of battery and ~50hp to make that competitive in a MX race.

 

[TCMB371]

Let's try to keep egos away from the forum, gentlemen. There are many other ways to portray your knowledge rather than patronizing people.

 

[F451]

1 - It looks awesome
2 - The frame has to handle different forces than on a ICE bike on an MX track
3 - It looks awesome
4 - It is indeed part of the cooling system (coolant runs on the inside of the side panels of the frame)
5 - It looks awesome
6 - We wanted to fare better than ICE bikes frame because we expected the life of the motorcycle to be much longer (twice?) as a normal dirtbike
7 - It looks awesome
8 - Like most first generation products, it is over-engineered and could have been made lighter/better (now that we proved it can handle the business)
9 - It looks effin' awesome

Thank you!

#3, 5, 7, 9, subjective. It makes the bike look heavy (which it is relative to comparable ICE bikes) to me.

And please do not be insulted, I know nothing about mc design and production, much less EV anything. I just want the thing to work, which I know it does awesomely, so awesomely that I am in the market to buy one, selling my killer KTM 350 to fund the deal. Alta hit it out of the ball park with these bikes.

 

[Rix]

Ok Do me a favor and got find an ICE MX bike and try to fit the battery and motor etc in the ICE chassis. The Alta motor has 2 stages of reduction so it won't work BTW. Try to fit a Zero motor with the Zero battery or Alta battery?? THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL A GOOD ICE MX BIKE CAN BE CONVERTED AS A KIT AND STILL BE COMPETITIVE!

You need to check out Sketch Coleman's MX to EMX conversion on Endless Sphere

 

[Judaslefourbe]

And please do not be insulted

I do not feel insulted, to each his/her own.

 

[TCMB371]

Whats the specs? You need at least 6kwh of battery and ~50hp to make that competitive in a MX race.

According to the guy's thumpertalk post, it weighed 279lbs, used A123 LiPo cells, and originally only had a 1.3kWh pack with the power output just under a 250f.

 

[Arlin Sansome]

According to the guy's thumpertalk post, it weighed 279lbs, used A123 LiPo cells, and originally only had a 1.3kWh pack with the power output just under a 250f.

The power can be acceptable but it needs to last a full moto. 1.3kwh is not anywhere close to what you need. I can ride my two zero MX's with 1 battery which is 2.5 kwh of usable energy and it's about 1/3 the energy you need for a moto.. ~6-8kwh is what you need for a motocross main event. This is not even considering trying to go for an afternoon ride in the bush which I find I always want more because the bottom 1/2 of the charge has reduced power due to the batter sag.

 

[Rix]

I am a friend of Sketch I know him fairly well I helped a wee bit with some questions he had as he was building it, Again his bike is amazing but not MX worthy its heavy with to little battery and the center of gravity is all wrong and its heavy.
Alta got everything right on the MXR other then maybe the battery needed a bit of refining. What is needed is something as good as an MXR or better.

Maybe you missed the multiple posts where I said I have 7 electric motorcycles including a Zero MX with 65hp and another Zero MX with KXF front suspension. I have something to get by with. But I come from Racing MX with a CRF250R as my last bike and until I can ride like that again I will not rest!

Yah I missed this earlier, truly impressive. So whats your next course of action?

 

[Mark911]

Difficult, yes. Impossible, no.

 

[Mark911]

Not sure if you are serious?? So I will act like you are. What houses that Alta motor? What cools that Alta motor? Have you measured that frame to see how the battery doesn't fit? And have you thought about the controller? The Alta motor and gear reduction is part of the frame for a BIG reason.

If you or anyone else would like to supply me with a donor Alta and KTM I'd rather just "do it" than try to explain it. Where there's a will there's a way I always say.

 

[Philip]

If you or anyone else would like to supply me with a donor Alta and KTM I'd rather just "do it" than try to explain it. Where there's a will there's a way I always say.

Here comes KTMALTA.

 

[privateer703]

Is it me or did that Honda sound 3x louder than the Alta?