Alta MX Cone Valve / Trax Suspension Swap

[#76]

Ok, looking for a few answers to some questions please.

I am planning a full suspension swap out on my 2017 MX, i know all the front forks i am looking at will fit as i am also going with Xtrig's, so this is only for the rear shock, and would really like to know what will fit.

Reading through a lot of old threads and some info like the MX/MXR shocks are not interchangeable without modification to the subframes for reservoir clearance due to the upper shock mounting points being machined in the bulkheads at different locations (Snydes). This is now making me think that the newer KTM fitment rear shocks are no good for the MX.

I read that there is a difference in the rear shock length from searching this forum between a the 2017 MX and the 2019 MXR?.

So that means say if i find a full set up from Ohlins for a late KTM (front will work fine) & it has a Flow rear shock that will not fit my 17 MX?.

I am looking into either :

Full Ohlins front and rear, so as i have read its the TTX44 that will fit not the Flow version. But then have seen the TTX44 on the new 2018+ bikes?.
KTM KYB A-Kit by Technical Touch - will the rear shock be the correct length?.
Cone valves but the new Xact Pro versions and the new style "slanted" rear shock - not seen any bike fitted with this rear shock let alone the old 17 MX version.

Just need to know what will fit...

Any help welcome please, if you have any of the above fitted to a 2017 MX Alta only then please do post up some pics and info on what you have fitted, then i can use that info to hopefully get sorted first time.

Cheers.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

Reminder: you can swap the dog link to the MXR which will give you a more aggressive damping curve (if that's what you're looking for).

 

[rayivers]

Yes, it looks like there definitely is a clearance problem, or at least the potential for one:



Fwiw, the shock on the right (2018 MXR) is 475mm eye-eye. Hopefully someone here who's actually changed out the 2017 shock will chime in. I wouldn't worry too much about shock overall length within 10mm or so, imo there's more than enough rear sag / fork height adjustment available to get it where you want it.

 

[Philip]

It's worth keeping in mind that the MX/EX rear shock is the same model as the the 2014-2016 KTM rear shock. So you can call major suspension tuners and search the internet for 2014-2016 KTM shocks.

 

[#76]

Reminder: you can swap the dog link to the MXR which will give you a more aggressive damping curve (if that's what you're looking for).

Hi, thanks for the reply - Yes i did read your post back a while ago saying this info, but i don't think it will help with fitting a newer shock onto the old 17MX. But thank you for posting.

Yes, it looks like there definitely is a clearance problem, or at least the potential for one:


Fwiw, the shock on the right (2018 MXR) is 475mm eye-eye. Hopefully someone here who's actually changed out the 2017 shock will chime in. I wouldn't worry too much about shock overall length within 10mm or so, imo there's more than enough rear sag / fork height adjustment available to get it where you want it.

For sure, looked at my two bikes and no go.
Thanks for the shock size, and good info for the lengths.. noted!.
I have seen a few Ohlins fitted on here, but not one on the older 17MX.
By the way, awesome what you have managed to do with your Ohlins!...way to go there...how i wish i understood it all a 1/4 as much as you do!. Well done.

It's worth keeping in mind that the MX/EX rear shock is the same model as the the 2014-2016 KTM rear shock. So you can call major suspension tuners and search the internet for 2014-2016 KTM shocks.

No one wants to know when you mention an Alta!. But yes thank you, i have already been into it and it seems like the KT-1593 is the one i need. Product | Öhlins
I will keep at it, just would have been nice to see a old MX with some different rear shock set up's, i know Alfie who i mentioned in my other post had a full Cone Valve set up but with that old ones with the Trax shock that everyone turn's off!. A good looking bike tho for sure!....

 

[#76]

Also - found this from Mark - on his post back in '17 about his MX and fitting a trax shock : "The frame will need some grinding to mount the Trax shock (2015 or older model)."

What a total shame and a sad state this place has got that one of the very first people to own one of these awesome bikes, and someone with so much knowledge and the ability to actually share and want to help....is gone.

 

[rayivers]

Thanks for the kind words regarding my Ohlins. My suspension needs are pretty simple but making them happen is a real challenge sometimes (but fun). I've read Race Tech's 'Motorcycle Suspension Bible' cover-to-cover several times which really helped a lot, and it's great to actually look inside forks / shocks and see what's going on, maybe getting it working a bit better for specific needs if possible.

Based on the images and fitment info below, I agree the KT 1593 may well bolt right onto the '17 MX (it'd be great to have full measurements first, though). 490mm seems a bit long, but I'm not sure of the eye-eye length of the '17 MX WP shock so maybe it's not a full 15mm longer. Looks like a nice unit.




I knew at least one of us got a Trax shock to work on an Alta - no surprise Mark did - and it looks like your bud Alfie's done a great job too.

 

[Bodie_Z]

It's worth keeping in mind that the MX/EX rear shock is the same model as the the 2014-2016 KTM rear shock. So you can call major suspension tuners and search the internet for 2014-2016 KTM shocks.

Ive been looking around for a spare shock for my MX and it seems like its actually 2012-2015 KTM rear shocks. the 2016s look like they have a crown more similar to the MXR shocks.

2012 250 SX-F

2016 250 SX-F

 

[Philip]

Ive been looking around for a spare shock for my MX and it seems like its actually 2012-2015 KTM rear shocks. the 2016s look like they have a crown more similar to the MXR shocks.

2012 250 SX-F
View attachment 8659
2016 250 SX-F
View attachment 8660

Hmm... Maybe you are right. I thought KTM switched to the AER48 air fork and a shorter rear shock in 2017?? Maybe they switched to the shorter rear shock earlier. But regardless, any rear shock that is compatible with the 2014-2015 KTMs would definitely fit the Alta MX/EX/SM.

 

[#76]

The 2016 KTM 250 SX was the very last of the "old" suspension.



Its all annoying tho, as i had the full set up years ago on a 2014 250 SX!....

 

[#76]

OK.

So, back on the suspension front i have a question and hopefully something exciting.

A good friend of mine is going to sell his 2017 Honda CRF 450, it has with it a full KYB Technical Touch suspension set up that i have been lucky enough to have had a ride or two on and man its bloody awesome, the confidence it gives you is amazing!. Rode it in 2020 when i had two punctures in a day with bloody nails!.

So, questions are:

Has anyone here managed to put a CRF front end on an Alta?. It has the Xtrig clamps as it comes with the kit but unsure of stem size and bearing size and generally if it will fit the 2017 headstock without a lot of modding etc?.

Also, If i can manage to get the CRF front end on, has anyone had a CRF rear wheel in the Alta?.

I see on this thread maybe the rear shock will work? @AJ405 : Suspension update KYB Technical Touch

While i am asking questions : Has anyone used the stock Alta front wheel with a KTM front end swap out?. I remember Mark911 counter-board into the disc face to allow the disc to sit back more so it would work, but wondering if anyone has managed to use it as-is with the KTM front end, seems a shame to not be able to have it as a spare.

Thanks for now.

 

[#76]

OK, no one had a go with the Honda stuff, ok.

So, has anyone tried this new KTM Cone Valve stuff on their 2017 MX at all?....

Wondering about that rear shock clearance!?.

 

[#76]

Anyone?....

Have finally found a KYB KTM Technical Touch full factory set up from Belgium!, but the rear shock is 480mm eye to eye, that's still a 10mm short fall, again as above can anyone offer some help or advice on this shortfall, will it make the Alta to low on the rear end and handle like crap or just be to low?.

I am desperate for some new suspension and i have been looking for a the KYB for ages and now finally have the chance for a full kit.

The newer Cone valve rear shock that i pictured above is again 480mm long.

I have also sent a msg to Mark as i know he has a Traxx on the rear of his bike and hoping he will reply back.

Anyone have any advice, please....there are some on here with a lot of suspension knowledge!. (@TCMB371) I know @rayivers on here said above that he would not worry about 10mm or so, but i want to make sure as the Alta is already low pegs wise!. Is 10mm on the shock length just a 10mm exact drop in height on the Alta's rear?, is it as simple as that and would actually make it handle better like the KTM's do?.

This is the kit offered... I don't have much time to mess about and keep the seller waiting!.



Stock rear shock length is : 490mm.

 

[rayivers]

Imo 10mm shorter should work just fine, and you can always lower the forks slightly if needed - guess I'm repeating myself, sorry about that. I prefer more straight-line stability over quicker steering, so for me dropping the rear a bit works well.

 

[standbyu]

Anyone?....

Have finally found a KYB KTM Technical Touch full factory set up from Belgium!, but the rear shock is 480mm eye to eye, that's still a 10mm short fall, again as above can anyone offer some help or advice on this shortfall, will it make the Alta to low on the rear end and handle like crap or just be to low?.

I am desperate for some new suspension and i have been looking for a the KYB for ages and now finally have the chance for a full kit.

The newer Cone valve rear shock that i pictured above is again 480mm long.

I have also sent a msg to Mark as i know he has a Traxx on the rear of his bike and hoping he will reply back.

Anyone have any advice, please....there are some on here with a lot of suspension knowledge!. (@TCMB371) I know @rayivers on here said above that he would not worry about 10mm or so, but i want to make sure as the Alta is already low pegs wise!. Is 10mm on the shock length just a 10mm exact drop in height on the Alta's rear?, is it as simple as that and would actually make it handle better like the KTM's do?.

This is the kit offered... I don't have much time to mess about and keep the seller waiting!.

View attachment 9617

Stock rear shock length is : 490mm.

View attachment 9618

pull your shock shaft down 10mm with a tie down and measure at the rear axle 90 degrees up to fender.......compare to the topped out measurement, that's how much travel you'll lose. It'll probably be 25mm or so shorter at the back I'm guessing.

 

[#76]

OK, so going with a modded Traxx rear shock (Modded to 490mm) with a bladder kit and valving for me, question is :

What spring rate to use? - try the stock 60 that came on my stock MX shock? - or go heavier?, I am 200lbs fast Vet.

Thank you for any help!.

 

[Philip]

What spring rate to use? - try the stock 60 that came on my stock MX shock? - or go heavier?, I am 200lbs fast Vet.

The stock MX rear spring is 62 N/mm, right? It is too soft for motocross.

Here are the springs that I used on the MX.

Re-springing a 2017 Alta Redshift MX (and then revalving too)

Greetings! I just bought an electric 2017 Alta Redshift MX. Love it to pieces! I have been trail riding it on powerline roads for the last week. It has a ton of traction, a lot of instant HP, and it is always in the right gear. It weighs 260 lbs, but without a heavy flywheel if feels very...

electricdirtriders.com

Also, @Mark911 found a way to install a KTM linkage on the MX. This changes the motion ratio, obviously. If you want to try that route, then perhaps you might need to go with the MXR stock rear spring rate of 60 N/mm.

 

[#76]

The stock MX rear spring is 62 N/mm, right? It is too soft for motocross.

Here are the springs that I used on the MX.

Re-springing a 2017 Alta Redshift MX (and then revalving too)

Greetings! I just bought an electric 2017 Alta Redshift MX. Love it to pieces! I have been trail riding it on powerline roads for the last week. It has a ton of traction, a lot of instant HP, and it is always in the right gear. It weighs 260 lbs, but without a heavy flywheel if feels very...

electricdirtriders.com

Also, @Mark911 found a way to install a KTM linkage on the MX. This changes the motion ratio, obviously. If you want to try that route, then perhaps you might need to go with the MXR stock rear spring rate of 60 N/mm.

Hi Philip. Thanks for the input.

I was reading the link actually all this morning!, man your whole ordeal on the 2017 Suspension thread you did a while back, i mean wow... like 20 times over you did that suspension, well done!.

Ok, so this is new to me, as on the 2017 i bought it has a 60-260 rear spring on it, no bloody wonder it was so bad!. Mmm...ok.

I am 198lbs so are you saying that even a 62 rear spring would be not enough for me?. Let alone the 60 i have now...but on a Traxx, not the WP it came with.

I did speak with Mark, thank you. When he fitted his traxx he used the Power Parts KTM dog on his that did indeed alter the geo. So, would this mean i could then use a shock that was say a little shorter?.

But this is all getting a real headache as you went through!.

I just don't want this anymore, nor do my wrists or shoulders!.....



This is my stock shock the 2017 came with :





So, i did send a msg to @querlenker as he did post up in your thread about his MX with Traxx and CV's and did say he can help so...see what comes of that i guess. As he posted this :

 

[Philip]

I am 198lbs so are you saying that even a 62 rear spring would be not enough for me?. Let alone the 60 i have now...but on a Traxx, not the WP it came with.

I weigh almost the same as you. But our bikes weigh exactly the same. You need to go stiffer.

Dampers are dampers, and springs are springs. Both have their functions. You can partially compensate for the inadequacies of one by adjusting the other, but you should not. Traxx is just a damper, it is not magical. You first have to have a proper spring rate for your bike. Then you adjust your damper for that spring and for your riding. Not the other way around.

I just don't want this anymore, nor do my wrists or shoulders!.....

I know what you mean. Have you cased the ground on flat landings yet? I have.

 

[Philip]

Do not forget to use proper fork spring rates either to keep your bike balanced. Altas have heavy front ends, so the front spring should be pretty stiff.