An Evening With The Champions - Opportunity To Promote E-Bikes

[VINSANITY]

Hi,

I am going to attend an Evening With The Champions in Chicago October 2.

Terry Good has been collecting vintage works bikes from former champions and has established the international motocross museum in North Chicago.

There will be a viewing of the bikes followed by a dinner. Approximately 350 people.

MC is RJ, Roger DeCoster along with the head of KTM, Bob Hannah, Jeff Stanton, Malcolm Smith, Torsten Hallman ……….

So my plan is do a 2 minute download to KTM about pushing electric. I’m nobody but this group is 1000 people strong and as a group we probably have influence ….. we each understand Alta type bikes are the future.

Please send your thoughts on influencing KTM and others present regarding electric.

Themes I can think of:

No one has time for maintenance in today’s fast paced world
New riders can ride the same bike as a pro
MX needs more affordable entry options
Riding areas are very restricted everywhere, quiet bikes can be in urban areas
No emissions so no restrictions on the products
Same basic drivetrain for different bike types
Due to rapid technology advancement manufactures will likely sell more because people will want the latest
Aftermarket will not die, instead of exhaust systems they can make control systems or better batteries etc.

MX will diminish or in extreme die out unless a major manufacture gets into the space.

Thanks

Vince

 

[Philip]

California is no longer selling ORV red stickers for MY2022+ dirt bikes. Can't ride them on public land anymore.

 

[Redwolf]

California? Where's that?

 

[VINSANITY]

I had no idea - does electric make any difference

 

[Philip]

I had no idea - does electric make any difference

Good question. I think they would get a "green sticker".

New California rules make most 2022 dirt bikes illegal on public land - RevZilla

While existing off-road motorcycles will still be legal, most new dirt bikes from model year 2022 on will be illegal on public land.

www.revzilla.com

 

[VINSANITY]

I’m really unsure if I will even get a chance to make a car with KTM at this event, but if California is banning ICE bikes on public land but electric would be allowed now that should make the manufactures think a little more about ebike development:

if California is doing this ban then all the usual suspects will certainly follow.

 

[evh1]

A whole generation is coming up raised on " the electric market". Cars are full bore. Bikes are coming and I think KTM is taking the group on their minis all the way up to 450 class and that's how they'll grow their bike offerings. ICE will be around, but embrace electric vehicles. They are here to stay and as we all know, work great in the dirty bike world for all the right reasons.

 

[evh1]

A whole generation is coming up raised on " the electric market". Cars are full bore. Bikes are coming and I think KTM is taking the group on their minis all the way up to 450 class and that's how they'll grow their bike offerings. ICE will be around, but embrace electric vehicles. They are here to stay and as we all know, work great in the dirty bike world for all the right reasons.

P.S. - I'll be with Jeff Stanton riding Triumph Tigers for 3 days October 5-7. I'll pick his brain after the conference and tell him about Alta Forum experience. I'll report any interesting tidbits from him. Damon Bradshaw may be there too, so another opinion may be interesting.

 

[VINSANITY]

That would be great to engage Mr. Stanton. I would think that when a major figure like Stanton try’s an Alta and or begins some kind of conversation about the benefits the manufactures and other industry people may listen a more.

Really starting the evolution of e bikes would benefit there business eventually.

Toyota lost money for several years on the Prius but when it went main stream it became their best selling product.

 

[Philip]

Toyota lost money for several years on the Prius but when it went main stream it became their best selling product.

A fun fact: Toyota is now fighting auto electrification very hard.

 

[VINSANITY]

The event was pretty good, Rick Johnson was the MC and did a great job.

I had a few brief moments to make a pitch for electric bikes:

Roger DeCoster - batteries only last 15 minutes at the pro level, didn’t believe ebikes are able to directly compete but may have a small segment in future.

Sel Narryana (KTM North America Race Director) - showed me a video of a battery fire and went on the explain the challenges of safety, people mis-handling, electrical safety and battery recycling - did state the coordination is happening with OEM’s for a common battery platform.

Rick Johnson - he had risen an Alta and thought it was fun but not enough range for dual sport trail riding that he enjoys.

Bob Hannah - no interest

Mark Blackwell - working on bicycle initiative but didn’t see adoption for motorcycles in the near future.

IMO seemed to be a lack of understanding of the potential of electric dirt bikes, pointing out the obvious problems and generally limited interest.

I suppose we each see things from our own perspective but this forum has hundreds of people that are hooked on there Alta’s

 

[Matt]

There is definitely interest. Every person I have ever had ride my bike gets super excited about the concept of electric dirt bikes in the future. Even the diehard gasers love riding it. Too bad the majors seems less interested.

 

[Philip]

Thanks for the update. So, with the old guard skeptical, the big OEMs will probably stay asleep and follow the inertia for a very long time.

We are having the worst-case scenario unfolding here in the e-dirt bike world. "Tesla Motors of motorcycles" and all their infrastructure went bankrupt, and we only have new Nissan Leafs, Chevy Bolts, and various electric golf carts available for purchase. The traditional OEMs are claiming that there is no future in electric vehicles.

The only thing that could shake the status quo are new companies that would follow in the footsteps of Alta Motors, who make no-compromise bikes that are fun, powerful, and competitive at the amateur level.

 

[Matt]

Thanks for the update. So, with the old guard skeptical, the big OEMs will probably stay asleep and follow the inertia for a very long time.

We are having the worst-case scenario unfolding here in the e-dirt bike world. "Tesla Motors of motorcycles" and all their infrastructure went bankrupt, and we only have new Nissan Leafs, Chevy Bolts, and various electric golf carts available for purchase. The traditional OEMs are claiming that there is no future in electric vehicles.

The only thing that could shake the status quo are new companies that would follow in the footsteps of Alta Motors, who make no-compromise bikes that are fun, powerful, and competitive at the amateur level.

The band needs to get back together. 2.0 to drive the Market.

 

[VINSANITY]

You can imagine that at this event I really had no status and only had little opportunities to engage for a minute here and there.

But in short I was very disappointed that the people who really grew the motocross and industry, and in cases are now executive level seemingly had no interest in developing electric technology.

It was kind of ironic that the theme of the night was highlighting key technological advancements through the years.

You can lead a horse to water..,….

A company should hire Mark 911 and Rashid, give them $250,000 with a 2 year timeframe and whammo we would have a marketable and affordable product.

 

[VINSANITY]

One more thing, Mark Blackwell was head of Polaris at the time they stopped doing electric motorcycle development with the Victory brand (formerly Brammo).

In our brief conversation I recall him saying Polaris couldn’t justify the development expenses and put a stop to the electric program, a shame really.

Recall the Victory brand is no more. The motorcycle segment is a tough business, but if they would have made this thing available to the public maybe they would still be in business?

 

[Philip]

BRP could afford $5M to spend on developing the technology, but are they doing anything with it? I am guessing their top management has no idea what they bought and why.

 

[Mark911]

I don't know how much money Tesla has (and for that matter, Alta had) for lawsuits related to battery fires. It's bound to happen, sooner or later, regardless of how many failsafe's are incorporated. In my opinion, that's the biggest liability impeding anyone from entering the market using Li-Ion technology right now. It's a known problem, so manufactures are forced to carry that risk. How much is enough preventative design, only a jury can answer that question and we all know how those tend to swing. A big mfg with lots of sales can absorb an occasional "anomaly" (or heaven forbid, tragedy), but a new start would be destroyed for sure. Insurance? I doubt there's any available at a cost that wouldn't be crushing to a small company.

BatteryFires.com

 

[VINSANITY]

The KTM guy Sel Narryana really seemed to be focused on safety and in particular chance of personal injury due to high voltage and fire.

I recall him saying they would build in a very high margin of safety that would lower power levels making bikes have lower performance.

I guess a company like KTM would have liability concerns due to the rugged use off road bikes can get and fairly extreme use.

I haven’t heard of a fire or major incident with an Alta so high levels of safety are possible.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

The band needs to get back together. 2.0 to drive the Market.

Get us $60M, we will get right to it!