General Do you miss using a clutch?

[rk42]

To reiterate, most of you don't miss the clutch at all and some would like to have one more layer of control in very tight technical situations where throttle control isn't precise enough.
No one has problems exiting a corner aggresivly for a jump or getting out of a deep sand burm when you burry the bike.

In conclusion, an electronic clutch could make sense for some riders, while a real one would have no benefits, just more maintenance cost and losses to battery life.

So i was completly backwards in my thinking haha

 

[C5tor]

One area I don’t think has been mentioned yet is having a “clutch-like” feature for coasting. More of a regen disable button. I do miss being able to coast down a hill or on the flat without my hand on the throttle. Regen on the Alta will bring the bike to a stop pretty quickly. Overall, I like the regen as it helps me avoid using the brakes at all sometimes. But I would like a coast feature.

Overall, I do not miss a clutch. Having no clutch just simplifies the riding experience, and uncomplicates the number of things my brain needs to coordinate to make the bike move. I have a hard enough time executing the throttle=go & brakes=stop thing. Clutches and gears and chokes and power-bands and foot positioning (to shift or brake) all get in the way of my riding enjoyment. There is a simplicity to having the throttle and both brakes on the bars that appeals to my zen riding aesthetic and my olympic-level of uncoordination.

 

[effinsiok]

I agree with @Trialsman. I ride tight technical woods in the PNW area, and on a nasty wet day the Alta does not go over slippery roots and rocks as well as a torquey 2-stroke with a clutch. One reason is the weight of the bike, but not having a clutch and only having one speed results the wheel spinning much faster than you want - trust me I understand throttle control and am fully competent at it. It’s the fact that the wheel speed comes up so high as soon as traction breaks. I run into scenarios where I need a certain amount of power to get over an uphill obstacle at low speed, and then I lose traction and the wheel spins up way too high. If you don’t give it that amount of throttle, you’re not moving forward. On a gas bike in the same situation, you’d be in 1st or 2nd gear and the gear reduction plus clutch slipping means the wheel speed is not going to be anywhere close to what the Alta does. I realize this is an MX bike, but it’s fun to ride in the woods too.

 

[F451]

People ask me this question a lot. There's such a common misconception that electric bikes are way too torquey right off idle and that it makes the bike a handful to ride. Sure, if you go from 0-100% throttle from a stop, you're going to have trouble keeping that front end down. There is a lot of power available on your right wrist. However, one of the biggest advantages we have on the Alta is how incredibly manageable the power is. The power is delivered in a very smooth fashion, and its super easy to modulate with the throttle. There's no lurching or teeter-tottering like a gas bike under partial throttle. Its so manageable that you can literally turn the bike on and, even in the max power setting, low throttle crawl it up a ramp onto the back of a pickup with 1 hand, without having to push the bike. Try doing that on a gas bike.

Then there are people that use a clutch to get them out of a wheelie or whiskey throttle situation. I guess owning the Alta has taught me great throttle control, because I only really had a whiskey throttle situation once where i massive overjumped a table top to flat, the forks pogo'd, and i was hanging off the back of the bike. I don't even think having a clutch in that situation would have benefitted me at all because things happened so quickly.

Having to use the clutch (and shifting) on my KX450 feels like an extra chore required to spin laps. Its an absolute luxury not having to worry about using the clutch and shifting on a motocross track.

"However, one of the biggest advantages we have on the Alta is how incredibly manageable the power is. The power is delivered in a very smooth fashion, and its super easy to modulate with the throttle. There's no lurching or teeter-tottering like a gas bike under partial throttle. Its so manageable that you can literally turn the bike on and, even in the max power setting, low throttle crawl it up a ramp onto the back of a pickup with 1 hand, without having to push the bike."

I've tried to explain this seemingly very basic (and awesome) Alta power characteristic to non e-moto peeps so many times and get the most amazing push back - from people who have NEVER even ridden ridden an Alta, much less seen one on a track or trail. They just can not accept it, they will not accept it, Lol.

I've basically given up trying to educate people on just about anything Alta related, its too exhausting.

Re clutch or no clutch, you guys have covered it well here already, but since I'm here will chime in. Old guy trail rider, ridden plenty of the PacNW gnar over the years and I don't miss the clutch at all. The precise power deliver of the Alta is amazing. No approach hill climbs coming off a tight corner or switch back? No problem. Logs, ditches, whatever, yank bars, blip throttle, carry on.

I do understand why some would like a clutch for hard enduro, or the occasional tight spot or whatever, but for me the lack of another component to service, or have fail, extra weight, extra rotating mass, etc, makes it a no brainer since the Alta works so well without one.

I would however love some type of freewheel function, pushing the bike around in the garage, or on the trail is a pain in the ass (for rolling forward I usually put it in Mode 1, light on the throttle, rolling backward, no bueno).

 

[F451]

I agree with @Trialsman. I ride tight technical woods in the PNW area, and on a nasty wet day the Alta does not go over slippery roots and rocks as well as a torquey 2-stroke with a clutch. One reason is the weight of the bike, but not having a clutch and only having one speed results the wheel spinning much faster than you want - trust me I understand throttle control and am fully competent at it. It’s the fact that the wheel speed comes up so high as soon as traction breaks. I run into scenarios where I need a certain amount of power to get over an uphill obstacle at low speed, and then I lose traction and the wheel spins up way too high. If you don’t give it that amount of throttle, you’re not moving forward. On a gas bike in the same situation, you’d be in 1st or 2nd gear and the gear reduction plus clutch slipping means the wheel speed is not going to be anywhere close to what the Alta does. I realize this is an MX bike, but it’s fun to ride in the woods too.

I'm very curious to see how the Stark Varg programming may be able to deal with that fast spin up scenario. Perhaps it will be able to be programmed out without too much difficulty.

I haven't found it to be much of an issue for me here in the PacNW, but if a "tractor mode" (like a rev limiter) or something could be easily programmed into a custom user defined power curve mode (as Stark has said will be available), that would be sweet.

Of course some would probably still like a clutch even if this feature exists, which I could understand.

 

[Matt]

I agree with @Trialsman. I ride tight technical woods in the PNW area, and on a nasty wet day the Alta does not go over slippery roots and rocks as well as a torquey 2-stroke with a clutch. One reason is the weight of the bike, but not having a clutch and only having one speed results the wheel spinning much faster than you want - trust me I understand throttle control and am fully competent at it. It’s the fact that the wheel speed comes up so high as soon as traction breaks. I run into scenarios where I need a certain amount of power to get over an uphill obstacle at low speed, and then I lose traction and the wheel spins up way too high. If you don’t give it that amount of throttle, you’re not moving forward. On a gas bike in the same situation, you’d be in 1st or 2nd gear and the gear reduction plus clutch slipping means the wheel speed is not going to be anywhere close to what the Alta does. I realize this is an MX bike, but it’s fun to ride in the woods too.

I find my Alta is superior in the muddy rooty hilly single track here in western NY but I can understand the sentiment. I run tubliss with low tire pressure and also have focused a lot of time on minimizing wheel spin which took me a while to figure out. Once I got good at it the Alta seemed to shine more but sometimes I do still get wheel spin like you have mentioned. The main issue I have is in super deep ruts where the pegs get sunk deep and you have to pull the bike out. It's so damn heavy it takes me forever to pull it out of a deep mud hole/rut if I get stuck.

 

[effinsiok]

Logs, ditches, rocks, no problem - as long as there is some traction the Alta + throttle control is superior, but I ride year round here and get into some slick conditions (including ice/snow) that a "tractor mode" or a clutch would be very helpful for. I run a mousse bib and a hybrid gummy tire for trail riding which definitely helps.

 

[Matt]

Logs, ditches, rocks, no problem - as long as there is some traction the Alta + throttle control is superior, but I ride year round here and get into some slick conditions (including ice/snow) that a "tractor mode" or a clutch would be very helpful for. I run a mousse bib and a hybrid gummy tire for trail riding which definitely helps.

What map do you use in ice/snow? I normally skip a few months but hit some slick snowy junk a few times a year at least ha. I find map 1 tractors pretty well despite a lack of power.

 

[F451]

<snips> It's so damn heavy it takes me forever to pull it out of a deep mud hole/rut if I get stuck.

F'reals! Lol.

Couple of years ago, buried it up to the axles at my club property, doesn't look too bad, but these pics were after like 20 mins of swearing, sweating, effort to back it out of this crazy sticky concrete mud. Exhausted myself trying to back it out rather then tipping it over and dragging it out.

I finally gave up and called out to some buddies nearby to come help me back it out. My buddy gave me a kind of funny look and then hopped on it and promptly did a perfect pivot turn (in place wheelie/u-turn) and tractor-ed it out of the mess. Easy peasy.

I was kind of sheepishly embarrassed that it had not occurred to do the pivot turn myself (once I had backed it out of the worst of it, initially, no way that front wheel would have been coming up/out).

And of course the whole time I was thinking, man, I wish I was on one of my old 125's for this whole debacle, Lol.

 

[B. FRANK]

OK...here's my take on it. a manual clutch would be simple to add from a design viewpoint, just put it in a jackshaft. how about left foot actuated clutch? it's got nothing to do anyway. as far as needing a clutch, the first time I dirt rode my alta I dug a hole and got stuck on the first steep hill I came to due to lack of experience with throttle control on a powerful electric dirt bike. squid move I know. I am looking forward to installing a lhrb but think overall it would be better to just adapt to the bike and practice throttle control. some e trials bikes have a clutch and some don't both work fine. maybe hard enduro or enduro cross guys may benefit from a clutch. so feel free to steal my idea, build a jackshaft clutch kit for Alta, stark, storm bee and others to follow and become an Elon musk, just please let me know you're using my idea, I don't want money or credit I just wanna say I knew him when.

 

[autohog]

I realize that I sort of use the LHRB like a clutch. When pulling wheelies for instance I get on the rear brake to drop the front end and then hammer the throttle and release the brake and to me the sequence is similar to using the clutch to do the same thing which is get a burst of power.

I also realize when going through whoops I do the same thing.

Much of our riding consists of fairly slow and technical enduro. Both my dad and brother were professional trial riders. I just can't imagine trying to get through and over most of the difficult terrain we ride, without a clutch. This was the main reason I never picked up an Alta. There are some great e-trial bikes out there implementing the use of a clutch on their bikes. I'm hoping that Stark will include a clutch version soon after their original release.

 

[rk42]

Much of our riding consists of fairly slow and technical enduro. Both my dad and brother were professional trial riders. I just can't imagine trying to get through and over most of the difficult terrain we ride, without a clutch. This was the main reason I never picked up an Alta. There are some great e-trial bikes out there implementing the use of a clutch on their bikes. I'm hoping that Stark will include a clutch version soon after their original release.

Did you ever try an electric bike? And do you think an electric clutch would do the trick or do you need a real one for your type of riding?