Educate me - Ultra Bee...

[Kurlon]

So, work's being a bitch which means my bike shopping has hit a brick wall for now. While discussing the various options on the market and my use cases a friend asked me why I wasn't considering something like a Surron? I immediately shot that down as the only experience I have with them was the OG original Light Bee and seeing how quickly it failed to stay together when adults abused it at our local sumo track. If I'm going 'small' I'd just go back to something like a TT-R 125LE, right? Well... that opinion was based on old info, the Ultra Bee isn't a Light Bee that ate too many twinkies, it legit looks like they beefed it up so it's not an overweight mountain bike with an identity crisis, it looks to be able to actually play now.

With the caveats of A) I can't spend any money right now till I know work is reliable again and B) I'm deciding that my prior need for my existing sumo / ice wheels to swap over isn't valid... What do I need to know about Ultra Bees? In particular, is there an option to get a hotted up one out of the box if I wanted rather than buy the bike and the replace 3/4 of it to get where I want to be power and suspension wise? Goal is going to be my all-rounder, woods, MX, sumo, ice, going to focus likely on sumo where I'm going to get slotted in vs 450s. I'm not opposed to swapping batteries at the track, and curious if there's options to charge a pack out of the bike? I see Warp 9 has wheels, the 17x 3 / 17 x 4.25 combo isn't ideal but workable... convince me I'm an idiot or there is merit? The weight difference between the Ultra Bee and a Varg is huge, but I dunno if the Ultra Bee's suspension is up to the same level as modern full size MXers?

 

[Erwin P]

The suspension is in no way comparable to a serious MX machine. Power is much much much lower than the 450's.
If your bike doesn't need a plate, the 1.0 MX depreciation is rather high. You can get a used Gen 1 one cheaper than speccing out an Ultrabee to where its almost half as capable as a Stark.

 

[Theo]

I'm not saying that this is a typical example of the reliability of an Ultra Bee, maybe it's just a very rare case, but I think you can should read this thread, if you haven't already.

 

[WoodsWeapon]

I’ve had an Ultra for 3 years and love it for what it is, a hugely fun play bike. But I’ve always had a midsize bike weakness and have had several XR100/CR85 conversions and a Service Honda CRF250jr (150R chassis/250 motor). But the Ultra isn’t a race bike unless there’s a specific class for it, but not against 450s or any full-size bike. Our local series has such a class and my son an A moto guy and I have raced it several times. I know the newest model has more battery and better forks, but I can’t believe it’s that much of a difference.
The oem wheels are junk and will need upgraded for any serious track riding. Battery is easily swappable and chargeable out of the bike.
I race a 300 regularly, and have a Stark EX that I’m selling as I honestly hate it. I know, nobody here will like that statement but the truth is at 56 years old I can pick it up once, maybe twice in a day of mx or woods racing. Anymore than that and my back would be blown out. The Ultra fills the gap of great entertainment in between race days for me.

 

[Airboy808]

I know you are interested in the ultra bee but some of the new models just released that are in the same zone some what with the ultra bee are the: Talaria Komodo, Apollo Warrior PRO sx-e15, and the Arctic Leopard XE Pro S. These may not have the same aftermarket support as the ultra bee so may need to ask yourself internally how much modding do you envision doing. Some people go all in the Ultra Bee and change just about everything and end up with a lighter wallet.

 

[Erwin P]

I think the UltraBee is a very dangerous moneypit.
Not that's bad quality for its intended purposes, not at all, but it's easy enough to fall in the pit of upgrades and it has some cult status around that. However none of the more serious mods that really propel it forward are cheap.
To get an UltraBee to the level where it can kinda do fullgrown MX things on an MX track you're talking about roughly 1 tot 1,5 Stark €. By then you might wonder, why not start out with a Stark that really shines at that that's guaranteed to work well there and the parts are under warranty?

I'll show you a calculation from Germany. A used Surron UltraBee starts at roughly €5000, then a battery make it last as long as the Stark is €4000. Then you still have shitty suspension and wheels (for MX, funbike around the woods is something else). A Stark Varg ready to go with some warranty left starts at €7500 That will hold up really well to the 450's.

I really like the concept of the UltraBee as a fun woods bike, but what you're thinking about is learning a fish to fly.

 

[Kurlon]

...wouldn't be my first over-build... My first race bike was a CRF70, that at the end I did regular big bike trackdays on after spending stuuuuuuupid amounts on developing it. I'm not looking for quite that level of dumb, but my normal logic is assume whatever I buy I'm going to need to address suspension with at least a revalve and spring out of the box. Battery *life* is oddly not a massive concern for me, particularly if the answer is just bring a second battery and swap.

Primary reason for looking at the UB over a Stark, approximately 70lbs. Question is, is that weight savings worth the spend and effort, sounding like maybe not.

 

[Erwin P]

In SM, 100% not worth it.
In MX? Maybe even less worth it than at SM.

Revalve and reshim isn't gonna cut it. At this point your talking €3000 in special parts if you want an upgrade that is actually an upgrade, that after that will still need a revalve/spring and are not to the level of the KYB's.

''Just bring a second battery'' is also a €3000.

Again, woods riding it's hard to beat the value of this lovely playbike. But i think it's about the most expensive way to do SM and MX. Can it be done? Sure, but you would really need to love the bike, have a lott of money to spend and care even less about resale value than with something like a Stark.

 

[Theo]

If you skim through this video you will notice that these KXE suspensions, apparently OEM on Surrons, have a pretty weird design: it seems that there is no bushing on the stenchion, like at 5:20.

And in this video at 6:18 they explain that generally in these cheaper forks there are no bushings apparently!

Now, my 48 AOS Kayaba move noticeably smoother after a bushings replacement and the old ones were not even visibly worn (no interruption in the grey teflon coating) and I can feel the difference between a fork tuned to slide better (DLC etc.) and one that was not despite being a slow riderl How do they move decently smoothly without bushings?
I fear that the Ultra Bee has a similar fork, too.

 

[Motor]

They are super reliable. A buddy has one and absolutely beats the living sh$t out of it.

You need sirrus suspension upgrade and 21/18 wheels with good tires. I'd look for a used one once you know what to look for, save you some cash.

 

[B. FRANK]

do you want a real motorcycle or a bicycle pretending to be one. sur rons are way cool....for what they are. what they are not is a real motorcycle. i am talking about bicycle wheels, tires, brakes, bearings, suspension and pretty much the frame.it is true you can change all that but it costs. i had as much money into my light bee as i did in my alta mx...appx 10k. and it was still a toy...a very fun toy, but still a toy. i still own 2 altas and no sur rons. my altas are better bikes than i am a rider so at 67 years old there is no varg in my future however sur rons and their like will stay in my past. so...do you want to have fun or be competitive? also you will never get the money back that you throw at a sur ron before you realize that it just ain't gonna be what you want it to be. sorry for hammering on sur rons, they are cool, but you sound like you need a real bike....DON'T GO DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE!

 

[Motor]

do you want a real motorcycle or a bicycle pretending to be one. sur rons are way cool....for what they are. what they are not is a real motorcycle. i am talking about bicycle wheels, tires, brakes, bearings, suspension and pretty much the frame.it is true you can change all that but it costs. i had as much money into my light bee as i did in my alta mx...appx 10k. and it was still a toy...a very fun toy, but still a toy. i still own 2 altas and no sur rons. my altas are better bikes than i am a rider so at 67 years old there is no varg in my future however sur rons and their like will stay in my past. so...do you want to have fun or be competitive? also you will never get the money back that you throw at a sur ron before you realize that it just ain't gonna be what you want it to be. sorry for hammering on sur rons, they are cool, but you sound like you need a real bike....DON'T GO DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE!

Ultra bee is great single track bike, close to full size 7/8 very different from light bee, 2x the weight 3x the power

 

[B. FRANK]

like i said many times sur rons are very cool and a lot of fun. if you're just fun riding ..great. this guy mentioned ice(i assumed racing) supermoto(i assumed racing) motocross(i assumed racing) as well as play riding. what i stated is that you can buy a ultra bee, mod it up so it is as competitive as you can get it and you will have spent more than a new varg or used alta cost and either one would be better for him unless he is only play riding or a smaller sized person. i wouldn't recommend an ultra bee as an only bike to anyone over 15. didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

 

[Motor]

like i said many times sur rons are very cool and a lot of fun. if you're just fun riding ..great. this guy mentioned ice(i assumed racing) supermoto(i assumed racing) motocross(i assumed racing) as well as play riding. what i stated is that you can buy a ultra bee, mod it up so it is as competitive as you can get it and you will have spent more than a new varg or used alta cost and either one would be better for him unless he is only play riding or a smaller sized person. i wouldn't recommend an ultra bee as an only bike to anyone over 15. didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

lol hurts my feelings? No frank you didn't.

I know some very fast riders over 15 years old that will smoke most people on gas bikes in the tight stuff 2-3rd gear single track on an ultra bee!