electronic clutch

[Hinkelstein]

Hi, this one looks nice. Any thoughts?

 

[Theo]

In the video description there is a link to buy one:
Stark Varg Electronic Clutch

 

[Hinkelstein]

quite some money for a try. An independent review would be nice.

 

[Theo]

Honestly I would be very cautious with this, thoug:
1-are you sure that it's reliable and that it won't behave incorrectly causing an unexpected power delivery? I doubt it has been developed with Stark and approved by them.
2-it would void the warranty

 

[Hinkelstein]

Honestly I would be very cautious with this, thoug:
1-are you sure that it's reliable and that it won't behave incorrectly causing an unexpected power delivery? I doubt it has been developed with Stark and approved by them.
2-it would void the warranty

Yes. As the output behavior of the hirschmann throttle is known, it would be possible to build a device with some arduino programming. This could be clutch behaviour or throttle curves, even both. But you are right, what if the device fails and simulates whiskey throttle. Had this once with my em due to a shortcut in the wiring. Not funny.

 

[OpaTsupa]

How does it work?
Does it interrupt the throttle signal?
If it is an entirely electronical/software method why the need for that big "master cylinder" on the bars?

I'm surprised that someone would make this and expect people to buy it without answering all these questions and more.

Also ignoring the absences of left-hand-rear-brake which is one of the advantages of EVs.

I'd be more interested in a thumb operated device.
Something like this: Inoveli, the new accelerator handle system for ATV, motorbike, scooter, watercraft ...

 

[Hinkelstein]

How does it work?
Does it interrupt the throttle signal?
If it is an entirely electronical/software method why the need for that big "master cylinder" on the bars?

I'm surprised that someone would make this and expect people to buy it without answering all these questions and more.

Also ignoring the absences of left-hand-rear-brake which is one of the advantages of EVs.

I'd be more interested in a thumb operated device.
Something like this: Inoveli, the new accelerator handle system for ATV, motorbike, scooter, watercraft ...

I think the part looking like a master cylinder is the case for the electronics. But I totally agree, there is a lot more communication necessary to make someone throw 500 Euros at it.

 

[mike61]

I suppose an adjustable throttle response combined with skilled using the LHRB will do
the similar effect without so much effort.
A question of practice.
Maybe necessary to climb vertical walls or similar situation.
We can see that riders like Eddy Carlsson (Superenduro) is able to ride where the "clutchriders" ride.

 

[BADNESS]

One of the other manufacturers is bringing out a clutch/brake for the left handlebar. It's to pop a wheelie over a slow speed obstacle .I'd say the Varg will come stock with a similar system for 26 or next gen whichever comes first .

 

[Chaconne]

I don't see why there is a need for a clutch. Any control should be with the throttle itself and having in intervening device (which is essentially an additional throttle controller) means more need for action on the part of the rider which I find unnecessary.

I know folks are in love with clutches on ICE bikes and there is the habit of old (and I love the clutch on my Yam and KTM) but I prefer to keep my full arm power on the bars in the hard gnarl and use precise throttle control --which the fly by wire on the Stark is already really good at and could be made even better with more programming options.

I don't use the added hand brake, I would rather use my foot for rear brake action and keep as much control on the bars at all times as possible. Even a finger on the clutch is less grip power on the bars in a slippery evil rock garden.

 

[FYR]

I would absolutely love to try one of these out. For me, when riding my gas bikes in low speed situations that require abrupt power delivery, I pull in the clutch, rev the throttle to bring the motor up where I want it to be in the powerband and feather the lever release to match what is needed to clear the obstacle or negotiate the maneuver in front of me. Works like that for me when there's a need for immediate stopping too. I disengage the clutch, use brakes as needed to stop. Standing still balancing I use the clutch-brake-throttle while I consider my next move. I'm having a slow-go-of relearning those techniques on the electric Varg.

So, as much as this product interests me - will I buy one? Not likely. For the same two reasons @Theo mentioned above: Cost and possible warranty issues.

 

[Chaconne]

I would absolutely love to try one of these out. For me, when riding my gas bikes in low speed situations that require abrupt power delivery, I pull in the clutch, rev the throttle to bring the motor up where I want it to be in the powerband and feather the lever release to match what is needed to clear the obstacle or negotiate the maneuver in front of me. Works like that for me when there's a need for immediate stopping too. I disengage the clutch, use brakes as needed to stop. Standing still balancing I use the clutch-brake-throttle while I consider my next move. I'm having a slow-go-of relearning those techniques on the electric Varg.

So, as much as this product interests me - will I buy one? Not likely. For the same two reasons @Theo mentioned above: Cost and possible warranty issues.

Interesting. I guess everybody is different. I find the Stark much better for all those things than either my KTM (300 2T) or Yam (450 4T) once you relearn using the throttle as the controller. I ride mostly slow gnarly enduro/hard enduro.

For me, not having to use the clutch removes the clutch-brake-throttle triplet and just makes it brake-throttle removing a control interference and maintaining full power of the left hand on the bars (which is the weaker hand/arm from most right handed people). On top of that there is no chance of stall. The Stark gives all the benefits of a Rekluse without the lever.

Does your Stark have a left hand brake? I could see how that could be disruptive to control if your muscle memory is automatic to that lever and unconsciously treat it like a clutch. For me I opted for the old-school config with a foot brake and single standard front brake lever. I do ride mountain bikes with L&R lever brakes but I did not muscle memory to that for motorcycles and would have trouble getting used to that on my E-Dirtbike.

 

[FYR]

Interesting. I guess everybody is different. I find the Stark much better for all those things than either my KTM (300 2T) or Yam (450 4T) once you relearn using the throttle as the controller. I ride mostly slow gnarly enduro/hard enduro.

For me, not having to use the clutch removes the clutch-brake-throttle triplet and just makes it brake-throttle removing a control interference and maintaining full power of the left hand on the bars (which is the weaker hand/arm from most right handed people). On top of that there is no chance of stall. The Stark gives all the benefits of a Rekluse without the lever.

Yep, I never did gel with the Rekluse when I tried it many, many years ago either. It felt to me (back then when I was riding at a much higher level than now) like it took away too much control of the bike for little benefit.

Does your Stark have a left hand brake? I could see how that could be disruptive to control if your muscle memory is automatic to that lever and unconsciously treat it like a clutch. For me I opted for the old-school config with a foot brake and single standard front brake lever. I do ride mountain bikes with L&R lever brakes but I did not muscle memory to that for motorcycles and would have trouble getting used to that on my E-Dirtbike.

Yes, my Varg does have the handbrake. I've also raced MTB for many years and my rigs were (are) always setup with moto-style lever arrangement. So, I thought it would be a pretty easy switch to go that way on the Varg. But, it's not as easy as I thought, I guess my muscle memory knows the difference between 270lbs and 22lbs. . I may convert back to foot brake, but I wanna give it a full riding season before I quit trying. My other dirtbikes are a Sherco ST290 trials bike and 250SX KTM prep'd for woods (18", big tank, Gnarly pipe, etc.). I had a 300 XCW before that, but it felt too soft to me, I like the snappy power and light weight of the SX.

I grew up in Attleboro, MA. Left there in 1994 when I was 35 years old. Raced Expert class MX on NESC/District 1 tracks mostly. Rode Observed Trials for 9 years with NETA and enduro A/B with King Philip Trail Riders. Where are you at in Mass and where do you ride Hard Enduro? Most of the KPTR stuff was run out of Wrentham State Forest back in those days.

 

[LTJ]

In my mind, the clutch on an ICE bike is used to get the bike revs up to access torque since ICE motors make little torque at low RPM. Electric motors make max or near max torque at 0 rpms. It seems to me that throttle control on an electric bike would serve the same function as a clutch on an ICE bike. I have both ICE bikes (300, 500, 890) and the Stark. I haven't put the miles in on the Stark to test it in all conditions, but so far I find the throttle control is awesome. I'm not a hard enduro guy though, so your mileage may very. BTW, I think the left hand rear brake is a game changer. Downhill rutted gnarly right hand turns are so much easier if you need to dab with your right foot.

 

[Hinkelstein]

I almost finished watching these short (3h) small talk:

The moderator describes a whiskey throttle event where the clutch helped him out, Anton Wass describes a future where
the mechanic brake ist coupled with regen braking. But this is not an available feature yet. They also consider that you won't be able to work against engine power by LHRB if throttle is wide open. So imho the "clutch for helping me out of whiskey panic" argument stays.

 

[FYR]

There's a lot of development happening right now in EV trials bikes - expect to see them coming out soon. I'm willing to take bets that NO commercially available, professional/competition level electric trials bike will be clutch-less.

 

[Chaconne]

Yep, I never did gel with the Rekluse when I tried it many, many years ago either. It felt to me (back then when I was riding at a much higher level than now) like it took away too much control of the bike for little benefit.

Yes, my Varg does have the handbrake. I've also raced MTB for many years and my rigs were (are) always setup with moto-style lever arrangement. So, I thought it would be a pretty easy switch to go that way on the Varg. But, it's not as easy as I thought, I guess my muscle memory knows the difference between 270lbs and 22lbs. . I may convert back to foot brake, but I wanna give it a full riding season before I quit trying. My other dirtbikes are a Sherco ST290 trials bike and 250SX KTM prep'd for woods (18", big tank, Gnarly pipe, etc.). I had a 300 XCW before that, but it felt too soft to me, I like the snappy power and light weight of the SX.

I grew up in Attleboro, MA. Left there in 1994 when I was 35 years old. Raced Expert class MX on NESC/District 1 tracks mostly. Rode Observed Trials for 9 years with NETA and enduro A/B with King Philip Trail Riders. Where are you at in Mass and where do you ride Hard Enduro? Most of the KPTR stuff was run out of Wrentham State Forest back in those days.

Cool.

I am up on the Northshore/Merrimac Valley near the New Hampshire border. Most of my current riding is on private land that spans onto some quasi private. It is maintained for multisport use by about 5 of us.

I am also loosely affliated with the Merrimac Valley Trail Riders and I do ride at Hop-Ev in New Hampshire from time to time when it is open but that is mostly maintained trails with some single track in places. Nothing hardcore like the private stuff.

Did you race a lot at Southwick? Did you ever race at Pepperal or Ludlow?

I didn't grow up in Mass but came to Mass from New York for some of the tracks way back when --Mass was a pretty big moto state at that time.

 

[FYR]

Yes, many times. Southwick 338, Pepperell (my favorite track), Unadilla, Middleboro... all of them. Thanks for asking, the amazing memories are all flashing back. I miss the dirt out there, and the smells in the fall as the leaves drop and settle in.