Owner's Review I Finally got my Stark…Pros and Cons

[Magoo69]

After over two years of waiting I finally got my Stark and rode it for two hours on single track yesterday. I had already demo ridden one but it had a modified suspension for motocross not trail riding. It (the demo) was crazy stiff front and rear.

These are my opinions and my opinions only. I’m not looking to get into any debates about my opinions on the Stark.

Pros:
- Ergonomics are really good. Note: I put taller and narrower bars on it. I did not like the stock bars for trail riding.
- Tunability, the modes are great BUT there are some Cons as well, see cons below.
- REAR suspension. It was plush enough for trail riding. Front suspension…see cons.
- Cornering, it just goes where you want.
- Build quality.
- Tool kit, very nice.
- 220v charging. It charges very quickly on 220v. I didn’t time it but it seemed like about an hour to go from 35% to 100%
- Range. I rode for two hours in single track woods riding and used +/- 60%. That included some 80hp pulls in an open area.

Cons:
- Lower HP modes. My biggest gripe for trail riding is that it is hard to get the front end up over obstacles if you use +/- 45hp modes or less in the technical stuff. The problem is not a lack of power but rather a lack of throttle response at the lower HP modes. I found I had better rhythm in the tight stuff using lower HP modes (40-45hp) but I much preferred 55-60 hp for the throttle response. That said, 55-60hp in technical single track was exhausting. Throttle control is paramount. I’m hoping Stark will come up with some lower Hp modes with better / snappier throttle response. To me the throttle sensitivity is backwards. It should be a little more snappy/quicker at low HP modes and a little less sensitive at the higher HP modes. I’m sure these mods will be available at some point from stark. A third column on the mode screen would be nice. Three columns: HP, Engine braking & throttle sensitivity.
- Front suspension is OK for trail riding but it’s on the harsh side especially the first part of the travel. That said, overall, the suspension is OK especially at higher speeds. FYI I had all the clickers 3/4 of the way out of full soft across the board, front and rear.
- Seat removal. The seat can only be removed by removing the entire body kit. Once that is removed, you can remove the seat by removing 8 screws. I know there is no reason to remove the seat other than to replace the seat cover…which I did.
- Display/phone location. I wish Stark would just use a normal bar pad and have the phone further forward. It’s hard to look down and see what mode you’re in. Minor annoyance.
- Inner tubes. I didn’t even try them. I use Tubliss on all my DB’s… I didn’t want to get a pinch flat out in the woods.

I added some bling as well.

 

[Oded]

Thanks! Do you have experience with the Alta, and can compare the two bikes in trail riding conditions?

 

[HadesOmega]

Nice didn't waste anytime accessorizing

 

[Magoo69]

Thanks! Do you have experience with the Alta, and can compare the two bikes in trail riding conditions?

I have ridden the Alta’s many times. My friend has three of them (one of them is for sale on this forum).

A couple of months ago we rode three Altas and one Stark demo bike (the one I mention in my review). We all loved the Stark but we also came away with the conclusion that the Alta is just as good as the Stark And in some areas better.

One of the rider who had never ridden either the Alta or the Stark felt the Alta was better for technical single track. The very soft suspension of the Alta is nice in the rock and roots and the overall smaller size of the Alta Is nice too if you have short legs like me. The Stark is tall.

Alta positives:

- Very good ergonomics for woods riding. It’s slightly smaller and has lower seat height which can be nice in the technical stuff.
- Soft suspension. This could be a pro or a con depending on what you ride. If you’re riding slow stuff, the soft suspension is nice.
- Plenty of power. Although not as powerful as the Stark, the Alta has more than enough.


Frankly, in my opinion, the Alta bone stock is better than the Stark bone stock for woods riding. The only downside of the Alta is the range. 2 hrs is the max we get out of the Alta..

My friend sent out his Alta suspension to Racetech for some tuning. We haven’t tried it yet…it will be interesting to see how it feels with a better suspension.

The Stark has better traction control. Although not interactive, the Stark has very good built in traction control. It puts the power down better that the Alta.

Bottom line, they’re both great bikes. The Alta is impressive considering it’s 7 years old.

Hope this helps.

 

[Oded]

Perfect. From your & others experience, seems like the Varg is a high end motocross tool, making it in some areas (suspension mainly) less suitable for trail and hard enduro.

 

[wfopete]

Agreed! I ordered mine with spring rates for a 40 pound lighter rider knowing they would be closer to the off roading I do. The spring rates are close to ideal. Took mine out with the settings off the showroom on some rocky s/t. I felt it and the seat didn't help! Comp/Reb damping was in the middle of the range. Even with the siff settings the chassis felt good with no deflection and it had good turning manners . I have backed the compression out all the way front and rear and will ride it tomorrow to feel the change. Agreed on the throttle response (low end snap?) in lower modes for logs and such. A lot of the riding I do could be done in the 30-35HP range but the response is not there until you get into higher power levels. Years ago I rode a Vet A level enduro prepped Alta on a woods course in map 4. Wasn't too bad just treat it like an open class bike.

 

[Magoo69]

I emailed Stark about adding a third parameter in addition to HP & ENGINE BRAKING in the map customization page. I suggested it should be “THROTTLE SENSITIVITY”. To my surprise, they replied that there is additional customization that will be available a few months from now. They called it “engine power curve”.

I think this will be a game changer for those of us who ride the Stark in the technical stuff.

 

[wfopete]

My tubes are still going strong after 3 hours of rocky Arkansas s//t. I'm running 12 psi to help them out.

Ride #2 but first some Varg bitchin':

I put on new plastic. Everything is modular & the panels to clip together then get attached to the seat with six screws. Not hard but not EZ, a bit of a juggling act. Then the whole piece mounts to the bike. If you don't take your time making sure the 8+ tabs/clips and slots line up just right; it won't mount correctly. Don't let the videos fool you, I spent close to an 1/2 hour and had the plastic on/off several times before I got it right. Each time you remove it the front shrouds rub against the carbon fiber "spoiler" and it cuts into the plastic. Need to put tape or something over it to prevent that.

• The stand/charger is slick for about 2 days, afterwards it's a awkward 30lbs brick that has to be lugged around.
• Torx bolt everywhere. Some places they are fine but not under fenders or other spots mud gathers.
• Rear subframe grab handles have a sharp radius where your hand pulls up at. 15 minutes with a Dremel tool and some 400 wet/dry sand paper fixed the issue.
• Chain adjuster is slick but it's tiny makings are hard to read.
• Spent 20 minutes dialing in the sag; then I found the sag marks on the rear fender. No it wasn't in the manual. Yes I was measuring at the wrong point and had to start all over.
  
  
• Other stuff:
• Installed wrap around hand guards and fork lug protection.
• Removed the foot brake and installed a LHRB; EZ job and it works well.
• Installed a new 18" wheel/tire.
• Installed a 13T countershaft sprocket for better response and tire clearance.
  
  Riding:

With new pieces installed, sag set, fork/shock compression backed out; this was the first time I tried to push a little speed out of the bike. Still a bit of a weird feeling between throttle and rear wheel but it's getting better. I call it an Electric ReKluse. ICE bikes have a clutch, transmission and power curves. This bike has a throttle and your right wrist; a bit of paradigm shift going on here. MX guys say it takes maybe 4-6 laps to gel with the bike. For technical woods riding I say turn those lap numbers into hours. I only have around 3 hours on the bike. Currently I'm pretty happy with the 35HP setting for getting around tight woods. With that setting I get boost out of corners and plenty of go on straights. I had earlier set the motor up with 20% engine braking. Today I took it all out although 5-10% might be ok (probably a 2 stroke thing of mine). Coming out of corners the bike puts the power down and can hustle deceptively fast. I'm used to lugging my 300 around in 3rd gear and poking the clutch on straight sections for speed. The Varg has a drama handle on the end of the handlebar for dial-a-speed and makes for a case of "You don't realize how fast you're moving" because there is no ICE feedback sound to help judge your speed. The terrain I rode in was dry, rocky and covered with leaves and so I was a bit cautious with the throttle. It will be fun to compare times to my 300 to see which is quicker. When going over logs there is little low end snap and no clutch to "pop". I'm not confident in the power and find myself yanking on the handlebars a bit just to make sure. With no clutch timing is everything. Smaller logs under 6" are not bad but above that size will take some thought/practice especially at speed. I hope that can be mitigated with firmware/software updates.

This bike has spring rates for MX and a rider 40 pound lighter than I. I believe the spring rates (.48) are close for the off road riding I do but the MX valving has a mid-stroke stiffness and the fork thickens up just like it should for MX. I backed out all the compression from the forks and rebound was turned out 12 clicks. The forks felt sluggish and unresponsive so I backed out the rebound another 4 clicks (16 total) and that livened things up. Still the forks are a ways off of my tuned 300XC O/C forks. I left 3"~ of travel unused on the forks; that's ok considering the riding I was doing 1st-3rd gear speed s/t). The shock action seemed harsh too but I was focused on the forks. Reminds me of the 1990's when riders were struggling converting MX bikes for woods riding. Even with the stiff/sluggish suspension the chassis seems good but I got pounded.

The Varg is not a fun/flickable bike at low speeds like a modern 250/300 is. Some of that may be technique on my part. MX guys feel it a little bit; woods guys will feel it much more. At 260lbs, the weight in corners & tight 1st/2nd gear woods feels much like my XR250. Once you are out of the slow speed stuff everything is fine. I like the LHRB it but my right foot still is looking for the rear brake pedal. Some say the LHRB isn't strong enough but this one works well so far.

Happier stuff:

• I didn't crash.
• LHRB is nice.
• Hills are of no concern.
• I started out with a full charge, rode 1.5 hrs and had 50% charge left and that included 4 speed runs in 80 HP mode.
• There is an update for extending battery range (maybe 10%?).
• Although it 's EZ to be gun shy of the throttle/power (it takes getting used to), once it's mastered it will be fun. So much tractable go-power in your right wrist.

 

[Magoo69]

My tubes are still going strong after 3 hours of rocky Arkansas s//t. I'm running 12 psi to help them out.

Ride #2 but first some Varg bitchin':

I put on new plastic. Everything is modular & the panels to clip together then get attached to the seat with six screws. Not hard but not EZ, a bit of a juggling act. Then the whole piece mounts to the bike. If you don't take your time making sure the 8+ tabs/clips and slots line up just right; it won't mount correctly. Don't let the videos fool you, I spent close to an 1/2 hour and had the plastic on/off several times before I got it right. Each time you remove it the front shrouds rub against the carbon fiber "spoiler" and it cuts into the plastic. Need to put tape or something over it to prevent that.

• The stand/charger is slick for about 2 days, afterwards it a awkward 30lbs brick that has to be lugged around.
• Torx bolt everywhere. Some places they are fine but not under fenders or other spots mud gathers.
• Rear subframe grab handles have a sharp radius where your hand pulls up at. 15 minutes with a Dremel tool and some 400 wet/dry sand paper fixed the issue.
• Chain adjuster is slick but it's tiny makings are hard to read.
• Spent 20 minutes dialing in the sag; then I found the sag marks on the rear fender. No it wasn't in the manual. Yes I was measuring at the wrong point and had to start all over.
  
  
• Other stuff:
• Installed wrap around hand guards and fork lug protection.
• Removed the foot brake and installed a LHRB; EZ job and it works well.
• Installed a new 18" wheel/tire.
• Installed a 13T countershaft sprocket for better response and tire clearance.
  
  Riding:

With new pieces installed, sag set, fork/shock compression backed out; this was the first time I tried to push a little speed out of the bike. Still a bit of a weird feeling between throttle and rear wheel but it's getting better. I call it an Electric ReKluse. ICE bikes have a clutch, transmission and power curves. This bike has a throttle and your right wrist; a bit of paradigm shift going on here. MX guys say it takes maybe 4-6 laps to gel with the bike. For technical woods riding I say turn those lap numbers into hours. I only have around 3 hours on the bike. Currently I'm pretty happy with the 35HP setting for getting around tight woods. With that setting I get boost out of corners and plenty of go on straights. I had earlier set the motor up with 20% engine braking. Today I took it all out although 5-10% might be ok (probably a 2 stroke thing of mine). Coming out of corners the bike puts the power down and can hustle deceptively fast. I'm used to lugging my 300 around in 3rd gear and poking the clutch on straight sections for speed. The Varg has a drama handle on the end of the handlebar for dial-a-speed and makes for a case of "You don't realize how fast you're moving" because there is no ICE feedback sound to help judge your speed. The terrain I rode in was dry, rocky and covered with leaves and so I was a bit cautious with the throttle. It will be fun to compare times to my 300 to see which is quicker. When going over logs there is little low end snap and no clutch to "pop". I'm not confident in the power and find myself yanking on the handlebars a bit just to make sure. With no clutch timing is everything. Smaller logs under 6" are not bad but above that size will take some thought/practice especially at speed. I hope that can be mitigated with firmware/software updates.

This bike has spring rates for MX and a rider 40 pound lighter than I. I believe the spring rates (.48) are close for the off road riding I do but the MX valving has a mid-stroke stiffness and the fork thickens up just like it should for MX. I backed out all the compression from the forks and rebound was turned out 12 clicks. The forks felt sluggish and unresponsive so I backed out the rebound another 4 clicks (16 total) and that livened things up. Still the forks are a ways off of my tuned 300XC O/C forks. I left 3"~ of travel unused on the forks; that's ok considering the riding I was doing 1st-3rd gear speed s/t). The shock action seemed harsh too but I was focused on the forks. Reminds me of the 1990's when riders were struggling converting MX bikes for woods riding. Even with the stiff/sluggish suspension the chassis seems good but I got pounded.

The Varg is not a fun/flickable bike at low speeds like a modern 250/300 is. Some of that may be technique on my part. MX guys feel it a little bit; woods guys will feel it much more. At 260lbs, the weight in corners & tight 1st/2nd gear woods feels much like my XR250. Once you are out of the slow speed stuff everything is fine. I like the LHRB it but my right foot still is looking for the rear brake pedal. Some say the LHRB isn't strong enough but this one works well so far.

Happier stuff:

• I didn't crash.
• LHRB is nice.
• Hills are of no concern.
• I started out with a full charge, rode 1.5 hrs and had 50% charge left and that included 4 speed runs in 80 HP mode.
• There is an update for extending battery range (maybe 10%?).
• Although it 's EZ to be gun shy of the throttle/power (it takes getting used to), once it's mastered it will be fun. So much tractable go-power in your right wrist.

View attachment 10964

Great review! I agree with all your findings. To me, the suspension shortfalls for woods riding will iron themselves out once some suspension tuners get their feet wet with this KYB setup.

The biggest and only issue to me for woods riding with the Stark is the lethargic throttle response at HP settings below 50hp. For Riders who don’t hop and wheelie over stuff, it will be great at those lower HP levels. I like to wheelie over obstacles as much as I can with my 300 XC. Like you said, it takes a very healthy pull on the bars to do that at low HP settings with the Stark.

I tried 65+ hp in the trails and loved the snappy throttle BUT it was borderline dangerous and for sure exhausting. The Stark power is so instantaneous at those settings that it is very easy to over wheelie and or to wheelie violently. Hopefully, the new software upgrades Stark told me are coming will address this.

 

[wfopete]

On another note; Stark parts prices are pretty good. Complete factory plastic for around $150, nice aluminum rear sprocket $35 and a complete LHRB (including, caliper, pads, hoses and master cylinder) ready to bolt on for $350. When I installed mine it was shipped full of fluid. I had to separate the line from the master cylinder to route the line and I thought: "I wonder what kind of bleeding nightmare I'm going to be in for now?". To my surprise, after opening the revivor cap, I slowly squeezed the lever and got one big air bubble. All done and the rear brake has been firm and strong from the start. I don't know what kind of fluid is in the lines but I'll probably flush them in a couple weeks and replace with Motul 600 fluid.

 

[blbills]

I emailed Stark about adding a third parameter in addition to HP & ENGINE BRAKING in the map customization page. I suggested it should be “THROTTLE SENSITIVITY”. To my surprise, they replied that there is additional customization that will be available a few months from now. They called it “engine power curve”.

I think this will be a game changer for those of us who ride the Stark in the technical stuff.

I'm looking forward to traction control. Did they say anything about that?

 

[Magoo69]

I'm looking forward to traction control. Did they say anything about that?

Their words:

“Added features such as traction control, adjusting power curve or flywheel effect should become available in the next few months with the upcoming updates.”

 

[F451]

The Sur Ron Ultra Bee has 3 "throttle sensitivity" settings that are separate from the 3 power level settings. I loved being able to set the throttle sensitivity, makes the bike very versatile. For beginners, set it to the lowest sensitivity, and lowest power setting and the bike is very easy to ride, no surprises.

For tight single track, I liked the highest power setting "S", and the mid throttle sensitivity setting "2", gave me good snap down low. For hooning around on the trails, the most sensitive throttle setting "3" was fun, very snappy, but not as easy to ride, and probably would not be the quickest way down the trail.

Hopefully Stark will implement a throttle sensitivity adjustment setting for you guys.

 

[Andreas]

My tubes are still going strong after 3 hours of rocky Arkansas s//t. I'm running 12 psi to help them out.

Ride #2 but first some Varg bitchin':

I put on new plastic. Everything is modular & the panels to clip together then get attached to the seat with six screws. Not hard but not EZ, a bit of a juggling act. Then the whole piece mounts to the bike. If you don't take your time making sure the 8+ tabs/clips and slots line up just right; it won't mount correctly. Don't let the videos fool you, I spent close to an 1/2 hour and had the plastic on/off several times before I got it right. Each time you remove it the front shrouds rub against the carbon fiber "spoiler" and it cuts into the plastic. Need to put tape or something over it to prevent that.

• The stand/charger is slick for about 2 days, afterwards it's a awkward 30lbs brick that has to be lugged around.
• Torx bolt everywhere. Some places they are fine but not under fenders or other spots mud gathers.
• Rear subframe grab handles have a sharp radius where your hand pulls up at. 15 minutes with a Dremel tool and some 400 wet/dry sand paper fixed the issue.
• Chain adjuster is slick but it's tiny makings are hard to read.
• Spent 20 minutes dialing in the sag; then I found the sag marks on the rear fender. No it wasn't in the manual. Yes I was measuring at the wrong point and had to start all over.
  
  
• Other stuff:
• Installed wrap around hand guards and fork lug protection.
• Removed the foot brake and installed a LHRB; EZ job and it works well.
• Installed a new 18" wheel/tire.
• Installed a 13T countershaft sprocket for better response and tire clearance.
  
  Riding:

With new pieces installed, sag set, fork/shock compression backed out; this was the first time I tried to push a little speed out of the bike. Still a bit of a weird feeling between throttle and rear wheel but it's getting better. I call it an Electric ReKluse. ICE bikes have a clutch, transmission and power curves. This bike has a throttle and your right wrist; a bit of paradigm shift going on here. MX guys say it takes maybe 4-6 laps to gel with the bike. For technical woods riding I say turn those lap numbers into hours. I only have around 3 hours on the bike. Currently I'm pretty happy with the 35HP setting for getting around tight woods. With that setting I get boost out of corners and plenty of go on straights. I had earlier set the motor up with 20% engine braking. Today I took it all out although 5-10% might be ok (probably a 2 stroke thing of mine). Coming out of corners the bike puts the power down and can hustle deceptively fast. I'm used to lugging my 300 around in 3rd gear and poking the clutch on straight sections for speed. The Varg has a drama handle on the end of the handlebar for dial-a-speed and makes for a case of "You don't realize how fast you're moving" because there is no ICE feedback sound to help judge your speed. The terrain I rode in was dry, rocky and covered with leaves and so I was a bit cautious with the throttle. It will be fun to compare times to my 300 to see which is quicker. When going over logs there is little low end snap and no clutch to "pop". I'm not confident in the power and find myself yanking on the handlebars a bit just to make sure. With no clutch timing is everything. Smaller logs under 6" are not bad but above that size will take some thought/practice especially at speed. I hope that can be mitigated with firmware/software updates.

This bike has spring rates for MX and a rider 40 pound lighter than I. I believe the spring rates (.48) are close for the off road riding I do but the MX valving has a mid-stroke stiffness and the fork thickens up just like it should for MX. I backed out all the compression from the forks and rebound was turned out 12 clicks. The forks felt sluggish and unresponsive so I backed out the rebound another 4 clicks (16 total) and that livened things up. Still the forks are a ways off of my tuned 300XC O/C forks. I left 3"~ of travel unused on the forks; that's ok considering the riding I was doing 1st-3rd gear speed s/t). The shock action seemed harsh too but I was focused on the forks. Reminds me of the 1990's when riders were struggling converting MX bikes for woods riding. Even with the stiff/sluggish suspension the chassis seems good but I got pounded.

The Varg is not a fun/flickable bike at low speeds like a modern 250/300 is. Some of that may be technique on my part. MX guys feel it a little bit; woods guys will feel it much more. At 260lbs, the weight in corners & tight 1st/2nd gear woods feels much like my XR250. Once you are out of the slow speed stuff everything is fine. I like the LHRB it but my right foot still is looking for the rear brake pedal. Some say the LHRB isn't strong enough but this one works well so far.

Happier stuff:

• I didn't crash.
• LHRB is nice.
• Hills are of no concern.
• I started out with a full charge, rode 1.5 hrs and had 50% charge left and that included 4 speed runs in 80 HP mode.
• There is an update for extending battery range (maybe 10%?).
• Although it 's EZ to be gun shy of the throttle/power (it takes getting used to), once it's mastered it will be fun. So much tractable go-power in your right wrist.

View attachment 10964

Great review!

"I spent 20 minutes adjusting the compliance; then I found the compliance markings on the rear fender. No, it wasn't in the manual".

Can you describe this in more detail?

Thanks.

 

[wfopete]

Here is a close up picture of the SAG measurement point on the rear fender.

Setting the "Sag" is part of getting the suspension correct for your weight and involves adjusting the preload on your shock.

 

[fred900]

Great review! I agree with all your findings. To me, the suspension shortfalls for woods riding will iron themselves out once some suspension tuners get their feet wet with this KYB setup.

The biggest and only issue to me for woods riding with the Stark is the lethargic throttle response at HP settings below 50hp. For Riders who don’t hop and wheelie over stuff, it will be great at those lower HP levels. I like to wheelie over obstacles as much as I can with my 300 XC. Like you said, it takes a very healthy pull on the bars to do that at low HP settings with the Stark.

I tried 65+ hp in the trails and loved the snappy throttle BUT it was borderline dangerous and for sure exhausting. The Stark power is so instantaneous at those settings that it is very easy to over wheelie and or to wheelie violently. Hopefully, the new software upgrades Stark told me are coming will address this.

Put a 51 tooth rear sprocket, you can wheelie over everything. It gives you the snap you need.

 

[Magoo69]

Put a 51 tooth rear sprocket, you can wheelie over everything. It gives you the snap you need.

Thanks… I had considered that but I don’t think a larger sprocket will fit unless I add links or get a longer chain. My chain adjusters are already all the way forward with the stock 48 T sprocket.

Did you add links or get another chain?

 

[fred900]

I had to get a new chain. Well worth it in my opinion.

 

[Magoo69]

I had to get a new chain. Well worth it in my opinion.

Ok got it….how is 51T at the higher HP settings and do you have a 13T front or a 14T ? Mine came with a 13T / 48T

 

[Chadx]

I haven't received my Varg yet, but I assume, since they are mx, they come with non-ring chains, correct? Plus they are riveted and no master link. So I'll replace with an O-ring or x-ring chain anyway so will decide on sprockets before getting chain. I know o-ring sap a tiny bit of power and range, but worth it to me.