My quest for a perfect Alta Redshift motocross suspension (Part 1)


Philip

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The gist of this post is that I just installed and tested an MXR suspension revalved by KTM World in Georgia, tested it twice this weekend, and it is now my most favorite Alta suspension by a large margin. I am very happy! :ricky:

If you want to know more details, keep reading.

I am not a noob to suspension tuning. I had to mod every suspension that I have ever owned. My longest tuning process was the dreadful 4CS on my 2015 Husky 2-stroke. I teamed up with Adam of Kreft Moto. He was sending me shim stack recommendations, and I was revalving and testing. After more than 20 iterations we got it down to being almost perfect, only to replace it with a stock KYB SSS, which gave me the last 3% that I could not achieve with the 4CS.

Enter Alta Redshift MX. The same 4CS, only with a much nicer baseline tune. However, it was set up for a 90-lbs C-class rider. It was good enough for trail riding, but not for any MX whoops or jumping. Luckily, nice people from Alta sent me their secret Factory developed Redshift MX suspension shim stack specs. That kept me happy for a while. I would call this shim stack a "C" class rider setup, or a good setup for someone who does not jump big jumps. It works well everywhere, except it can blow through on large impacts.

Then I bought the MXR. This was my first foray into air forks. The front and the rear of the MXR were a huge improvement over the MX. The bottoming resistance and the spring rates were greatly improved. However, my rear shock low-speed damping was way too soft.

To fix my MXR suspension, I first mailed it to Kreft Moto. That didn't go well. Both the front and the rear came back softer than before. I was afraid to jump that bike, afraid to hurt my wrists and knees more than just temporarily. Luckily, like most self-respecting companies, Kreft has a money back guarantee. After two iterations Adam put my suspension back to stock. The only thing I lost was time.

Then the suspension flew from Kreft straight to Brian at N2Dirt. @Fod and @Fog 25 were posing rave reviews of his Alta suspension work. Brian didn't disappoint. The new suspension had more low-speed damping, was less busy on small bumps than the MXR v.1 suspension, had some improved plushness, and had a better bottoming resistance.

In the meantime, while Brian was working on my suspension, I drove through Ohio and bought my second MXR. As I learned later, it had a v.2 rear shock, the kind that was supposed to have come on the MXR from the beginning. Some earlier MXRs had a softer than intended rear shock valving due to a miss by WP (MXR Rear Shock v.1 vs. v.2). The v.2 was a huge improvement over the v.1. The front was the same, but the rear was no longer underdamped. The bottoming resistance was better, and the bike was stable and rideable in the whoops and in the sand. If this was the MXR that I had bought first, I would have probably still been riding the stock suspension. It is perfectly adequate for a fast C-class or a typical vet rider.

Anyway... the N2Dirt and the Stock MXR v.2 suspensions felt so similar that I could hardly tell them apart. My praises and minor gripes were about the same on both suspensions. I was most comfortable with the clickers being slightly stiffer than recommended, which was giving me good control and bottoming resistance, but my hands were getting tired on bumpy tracks. At the same time, I was using the full suspension travel on every lap, and landing short or overjumping was painful. I couldn't go softer, and I couldn't go stiffer.

As I started to get better and going faster on my favorite practice tracks, I craved for more bottoming resistance that would come without an increase in harshness. I recalled @MattB likes to over-jump 80-foot jumps. He had his suspension revalved by KTM World in Georgia, and he said that the suspension had an improvement in damping, bottoming resistance, and felt more like his air forked KTM 450SXF, which usually means pretty good. That was intriguing.

So, I decided to send my second MXR suspension to KTM World at the beginning of this month to give them a try. Why not? The turnaround was pretty quick, but my local track in AZ is open only every other weekend, so I only got to test it for the first time yesterday and today.

What an improvement!!! A very large improvement over six other Alta suspensions that I have tried so far (MX stock, MX Factory re-tune, MXR stock v.1, Kreft, MXR stock v.2, and N2Dirt). Seventh time is a charm.

For the first time ever I felt like the Alta became light in the vertical direction. Today I felt like I was Musquin passing Tomac by jumping the whoops at Anaheim 2. It was flying over obstacles and skimming the tops of bumps, not bogging down in them. My hands are now more relaxed than ever.

The bottoming resistance is my most favorite part. I can now run a whole practice and never bottom in the front or in the rear, even though my rear spring is still the stock 60 N/mm, and the air fork pressure is the same 154 psi that I have always run before. If I come short on a table top, or overshoot something, the suspension stiffens up and does not blow through. I noticed the fork travel indicator O-ring is usually about 20mm from the bottom, and the old black tire marks on the rear fender are now always covered with a layer of dirt. The suspension uses less travel, yet it feels slightly softer on small impacts at the same time. It feels stiffer on medium and large impacts, not allowing it to blow through the stroke.

I added 2 rebound clicks to keep the bike flying closer to the ground and to make it stay in the ruts better. I also set the sag at 90mm, which is when the bike became neutral enough, making it easier to transition from a brake slide to a power slide. The riding was so easy that I put in a few good long riding sessions, riding fast but relaxed. My heart rate was barely over 150bpm. It used to be in the 180-190bpm range a few years ago when I rode 2-strokes. I am very happy now.
 

Rix

Self proclaimed macho man extraordinaire
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Here is my setup sheet. Ignore the 66 N/mm spring rate, they are crazy. My current sag is 90mm. And this is an MXR, not an MX.

View attachment 2199
THIS IS AWESOME Phillip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Going to take this info to my suspension guy in Reno, and use this as a base line. Hopefully after my total knee replacement surgery in 2 weeks, I will get my ready to ride weight down to the 240 from 285ish.
 

Philip

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Lake Havasu City, AZ
THIS IS AWESOME Phillip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Going to take this info to my suspension guy in Reno, and use this as a base line. Hopefully after my total knee replacement surgery in 2 weeks, I will get my ready to ride weight down to the 240 from 285ish.
Not sure how this could help you or your suspension guy. My setup sheet is meaningless if used on a different suspension. Your EXR has a different fork, but even if you had an MXR, you would still have to ship your suspension to KTM World.
 

snydes

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Philip, I applaud your determination. Most people (myself included) would have settled for less. Obviously suspension can be subjective, but you clearly knew what you were after. I look forward to your continued analysis!
 

querlenker

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Germany
Hello, if anyone in Europe needs help with suspension, I can provide the best address. They did upgrade 5 Alta already, maybe the largest number for a suspension tuner :) - coil conversion, trax update, aer, all no problem..66030D0F-C8FF-4C52-AF74-9A2EF037D31D.jpegEAE8CA6A-576B-4905-B735-60B7C78E5AEE.png
 

leeo45

Geezer in denial
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Lake Hartwell, SC
Phillip, Glad it's working for you. Too bad you didn't get a chance to ride some of the tracks and trails at Highland Park (which is colocated with KTM World). The guys at KTM World have been reworking the suspensions on my KTMs for over ten years; both my single track woods bikes and my rally bike for the high speed deserts out west. And now my EXR set up for the woods. My experience says they have the knowledge and tools (suspension dyno, WP vacuum pump, etc) to get it right if you can give them your honest input on skills, weight, and riding objectives. (y)
 

Philip

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My experience says they have the knowledge and tools (suspension dyno, WP vacuum pump, etc) to get it right
A suspension dyno, if they know how to use it, is indeed a big deal. But I am laughing at how they pitch and upsell their WP vacuum bleeder in their videos and conversations. They obviously know what they are doing, as I just confirmed, and they are offering a money back guarantee, but saying that they are the best WP shop because they have a real WP vacuum bleeder actually reduced their credibility in my eyes. This, and some less than friendly guy who does not work there anymore, were actually the two reasons why I didn't send my suspension to them last summer.
 

leeo45

Geezer in denial
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A suspension dyno, if they know how to use it, is indeed a big deal. But I am laughing at how they pitch and upsell their WP vacuum bleeder in their videos and conversations. They obviously know what they are doing, as I just confirmed, and they are offering a money back guarantee, but saying that they are the best WP shop because they have a real WP vacuum bleeder actually reduced their credibility in my eyes. This, and some less than friendly guy who does not work there anymore, were actually the two reasons why I didn't send my suspension to them last summer.

Yes, on occasion in the past the phone protocol might not have been the best. However, in person they are all great; extremely friendly, patient, and big-time enthusiasts. The owner has been riding and racing (roadracing, supermoto, and dirt) for many decades. If you talk with Paul (owner) or Barry (suspension wizard) you can tell they know their stuff. If you called and got someone at the parts counter when one of the other guys wasn't available, I suppose they might have read you the website pitch about the WP pump.

They used to have a number of good, technical articles written about suspension testing, development, and optimization with the dyno. It looks like the only thing that made it to this latest version of their website is two little thermal images. They have designed and fabricated a number of their own parts for shock reservoirs, valving, etc. for the KTMs based on the dyno testing. I have one of their reservoirs plus the full suspension treatment on my rally bike. One of the big advantages to them as a shop and to me as a rider is they have three MX tracks and 90 miles of one-way trails literally right behind the shop so it is very easy to test and make changes. Paul rode laps with 30 pounds in a backpack when they worked on that bike.

Related specifically to ALTAs, they have had two or three Redshift MX demo bikes since almost the beginning that have been used extensively for suspension testing. I bought their first EXR the day after it arrived so they had to do some research on the shock linkage and spring rates, and they got it right. I am 6-3 with long arms and 230 pounds with gear so "stock" doesn't work very well for me.

(And no, I don't work or own stock at KTM World. I went riding out there the week they opened when I was a total beginner dirt rider and ever since they have always treated me right and have repeatedly proven they know what they are doing with the bikes. I was glad to hear that you are having success with the new suspension setup.) :ricky:
 

Mikec265

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What did KTM World charge?

Does the front feel stable and planted in rough turns? My stock forks scare the hell out of me, and turn into pogo sticks that want to high side.
 

snydes

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@leeo45 , Paul’s bike was the first Alta I rode. I would have bought my bike there and then but we were traveling and I wasn’t prepared to buy a bike. Great place, Highland Park and Durhamtown are my two favorite places to ride.

Looks like they got it together on their suspension settings for the Alta’s. Good to know.
 

Philip

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What did KTM World charge?
It came out a little higher than I anticipated. About $500 for labor, $100 for parts, 100 for shopping, and I also bought an Xtrig rear spring adjuster and SKF green seals.
Does the front feel stable and planted in rough turns? My stock forks scare the hell out of me, and turn into pogo sticks that want to high side.
I keep the steering stem nut tight, which is the biggest thing that helps with the front stability. I increased the rebound damping by two clicks, both front and rear, to keep it planted in rutted turns. I haven't been surprised by anything the bike did so far, and I am staying pretty relaxed in most turns, so I suppose you can call that stable and planted.
 

Bought-2-L8

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Anaheim/Camarillo CA
The gist of this post is that I just installed and tested an MXR suspension revalved by KTM World in Georgia, tested it twice this weekend, and it is now my most favorite Alta suspension by a large margin. I am very happy! :ricky:

If you want to know more details, keep reading.

I am not a noob to suspension tuning. I had to mod every suspension that I have ever owned. My longest tuning process was the dreadful 4CS on my 2015 Husky 2-stroke. I teamed up with Adam of Kreft Moto. He was sending me shim stack recommendations, and I was revalving and testing. After more than 20 iterations we got it down to being almost perfect, only to replace it with a stock KYB SSS, which gave me the last 3% that I could not achieve with the 4CS.

Enter Alta Redshift MX. The same 4CS, only with a much nicer baseline tune. However, it was set up for a 90-lbs C-class rider. It was good enough for trail riding, but not for any MX whoops or jumping. Luckily, nice people from Alta sent me their secret Factory developed Redshift MX suspension shim stack specs. That kept me happy for a while. I would call this shim stack a "C" class rider setup, or a good setup for someone who does not jump big jumps. It works well everywhere, except it can blow through on large impacts.

Then I bought the MXR. This was my first foray into air forks. The front and the rear of the MXR were a huge improvement over the MX. The bottoming resistance and the spring rates were greatly improved. However, my rear shock low-speed damping was way too soft.

To fix my MXR suspension, I first mailed it to Kreft Moto. That didn't go well. Both the front and the rear came back softer than before. I was afraid to jump that bike, afraid to hurt my wrists and knees more than just temporarily. Luckily, like most self-respecting companies, Kreft has a money back guarantee. After two iterations Adam put my suspension back to stock. The only thing I lost was time.

Then the suspension flew from Kreft straight to Brian at N2Dirt. @Fod and @Fog 25 were posing rave reviews of his Alta suspension work. Brian didn't disappoint. The new suspension had more low-speed damping, was less busy on small bumps than the MXR v.1 suspension, had some improved plushness, and had a better bottoming resistance.

In the meantime, while Brian was working on my suspension, I drove through Ohio and bought my second MXR. As I learned later, it had a v.2 rear shock, the kind that was supposed to have come on the MXR from the beginning. Some earlier MXRs had a softer than intended rear shock valving due to a miss by WP (MXR Rear Shock v.1 vs. v.2). The v.2 was a huge improvement over the v.1. The front was the same, but the rear was no longer underdamped. The bottoming resistance was better, and the bike was stable and rideable in the whoops and in the sand. If this was the MXR that I had bought first, I would have probably still been riding the stock suspension. It is perfectly adequate for a fast C-class or a typical vet rider.

Anyway... the N2Dirt and the Stock MXR v.2 suspensions felt so similar that I could hardly tell them apart. My praises and minor gripes were about the same on both suspensions. I was most comfortable with the clickers being slightly stiffer than recommended, which was giving me good control and bottoming resistance, but my hands were getting tired on bumpy tracks. At the same time, I was using the full suspension travel on every lap, and landing short or overjumping was painful. I couldn't go softer, and I couldn't go stiffer.

As I started to get better and going faster on my favorite practice tracks, I craved for more bottoming resistance that would come without an increase in harshness. I recalled @MattB likes to over-jump 80-foot jumps. He had his suspension revalved by KTM World in Georgia, and he said that the suspension had an improvement in damping, bottoming resistance, and felt more like his air forked KTM 450SXF, which usually means pretty good. That was intriguing.

So, I decided to send my second MXR suspension to KTM World at the beginning of this month to give them a try. Why not? The turnaround was pretty quick, but my local track in AZ is open only every other weekend, so I only got to test it for the first time yesterday and today.

What an improvement!!! A very large improvement over six other Alta suspensions that I have tried so far (MX stock, MX Factory re-tune, MXR stock v.1, Kreft, MXR stock v.2, and N2Dirt). Seventh time is a charm.

For the first time ever I felt like the Alta became light in the vertical direction. Today I felt like I was Musquin passing Tomac by jumping the whoops at Anaheim 2. It was flying over obstacles and skimming the tops of bumps, not bogging down in them. My hands are now more relaxed than ever.

The bottoming resistance is my most favorite part. I can now run a whole practice and never bottom in the front or in the rear, even though my rear spring is still the stock 60 N/mm, and the air fork pressure is the same 154 psi that I have always run before. If I come short on a table top, or overshoot something, the suspension stiffens up and does not blow through. I noticed the fork travel indicator O-ring is usually about 20mm from the bottom, and the old black tire marks on the rear fender are now always covered with a layer of dirt. The suspension uses less travel, yet it feels slightly softer on small impacts at the same time. It feels stiffer on medium and large impacts, not allowing it to blow through the stroke.

I added 2 rebound clicks to keep the bike flying closer to the ground and to make it stay in the ruts better. I also set the sag at 90mm, which is when the bike became neutral enough, making it easier to transition from a brake slide to a power slide. The riding was so easy that I put in a few good long riding sessions, riding fast but relaxed. My heart rate was barely over 150bpm. It used to be in the 180-190bpm range a few years ago when I rode 2-strokes. I am very happy now.

Well I wish I had seen this before. I sent my suspension to N2Dirt and they are doing it right now. $1,450 for respring and revalve + MXT Lucky.
I could've sent it up to Georgia for cheaper. (I'm in Florida). Hopefully it still comes out perfect.
 

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