New Stark Discounts/Stock Tube Issues


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Just noticed that stark has marked down pretty much every bike they have available in the U.S. around 3 grand.
Great opportunity for someone to get a steal on one of these but as a day 1 preorder I have mixed feelings about this.
Anyone else have some thoughts?

Also PSA for anyone who is still running stock tubes in their tires.
I took my bike out for its first major trail-ride a couple of months ago and ended up getting a pinch flat in the rear about ~10 or so miles from where my truck was parked. Luckily I was able to coast back down so I didn't have to push my bike all the way there.
Long story short I took the tire off and had a local shop swap out the tube and they handed me back the cheapest, most flimsy looking tire tube of all time. I kid you not the outer layer felt like it was made of plastic. The guy who worked on it said they've gotten multiple other varg wheels in with the exact same problem and the tube is pretty much garbage. Unfortunately I promptly threw it in the trash so I don't have any pictures but I'd 100% recommend getting it changed if you plan on doing any bit of rocky/rough trails in the near future.
 

Erwin P

Active member
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Netherlands
As an early adapter you know you're going to pay big and will have development issues. Same here and all bikes now have a 1000 euro discount.
But for that we got to be a few of the first with such bike and the fun that comes along.

Those tubes arn't made cheap, they are made light. We have the specsheet warriors to thank for that because Stark had to move heaven and earth to get it on 450 weight.
I have destroyed both inner tubes in jumping and replaced them with tougher ones.
However when they do keep air in (i know quite some guys with these that still work) they are amazingly light and make the bike turn in quick.
 

Magoo69

Well-known member
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Massachusetts
Well, as a very early depositor, I feel cheated and disappointed. We took a chance 3 years ago and gave Stark our money not knowing if they would even make it in the long run.

S o basically my Stark just depreciated $3k in a blink of an eye.

Thanks Stark Future, once again you gave the early depositors the shaft. 🤬
 

Swank171

Well-known member
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183
Location
San Diego
Ya…the whole shaft. Hahah. It’s a sweet bike though…..maybe we will get a hookup when a solid state battery comes out.

Or even better maybe they won’t even make the new battery compatible with our bikes basically bricking them. ROFL. At the end I’m the dummy that bought it. It’s fun for now!!
 

Theo

Well-known member
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120
Location
Italy
Well, as a very early depositor, I feel cheated and disappointed. We took a chance 3 years ago and gave Stark our money not knowing if they would even make it in the long run.

S o basically my Stark just depreciated $3k in a blink of an eye.

Thanks Stark Future, once again you gave the early depositors the shaft. 🤬
What you have said makes sense.
Honestly, despite the fact that I don't side with anyone and I only support people when they are right, I am a Stark's fan who tends to support them and when I think about it I am happy to be their fan because they are trying to do something very important to me.
I love motocross but I also I love motorsport in general and motocross can let you develop and maintain skills that can be used anywhere:
MotoGP and WSBK riders basically all train with MX bikes and some of them only did MX up to teenage,
among supermoto riders, it's typical that those who come from motocross are fast on asphalt, too after some hours of practice,
a north european rallycar legend from the 80s was interviewed and said that one of the reasons for which a lot of rally champions come from northern Europe is that they ride MX a lot when they are kids,
RedBull threw Cairoli on an F1 car some years ago and his lap was 10 seconds slower than the track record: not bad for someone who has driven F1 cars for one day.
MX, compared to other kinds of motorsports, is cheap and in general is affordable by most of the people who are willing to cut other expenses. It can make a spectator who whishes to have certain skills someone who actually has them!!!!!
One of the problems of MX, though, is that it's very time consuming, but with an electric bike this can change: way less maintenance and the possibility of having tracks closer to cities; consider this place, a minicross track for electric bikes only, and check where it is on a map, for examlpe:
Google Maps
the satellite images from Google Maps are old but now the track is in the indicated spot: yes, in front of houses, next to a bar and aside a basketball court. I've been there a couple of times and I rented their Talarias, the place is indoor, no exhaust gases to handle, and when it rained it was better to have some fun in that small place than not to ride at all.
What if stuff like that became more popular? WIthin the radius of some miles from my house there are many places where there is enough room for a full size MX track, but the noise of gas bikes would never be allowed.
I would have never ridden so much this year with a gas bike, but with the Varg I don't worry about filters, pistons, etc.
What have the other manufacturers done, instead? SInce I watched a video of AJ Catanzaro riding an Alta years ago I have periodically checked the websites of other manufacturers hoping to see an electric MX bike listed and I've found nothing. Ducati and Triumph are joining the MX world and they still use the gas engine.
Stark has done and is still doing something so risky and they are taking so much offense by people who can't take ten minutes to seriously learn something about electric dirtbikes and from those who have told their friends that electric dirtbikes are gay (which shouldn't be an insult, but that's a different story) and now can't admit it if they actually like them.
I just understand that they are trying to grow and to compete against the other manufacturers: if they can eventually lower the price, then I'm happy that they can do that and convince more people to buy the Varg.
 

Erwin P

Active member
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Netherlands
Agreed with the above. Buying a brand new model from a brand new brand is the best way to overpay and have startup issues.

But also consider this. Everytime KTM/Beta etc come out with a new model the previous one dropps a 1000 euro to get them out of the showrooms. So far i know both have come out with a new model since last years november (then i got my Stark) so in the conventional bike market i would have lost the 1000 too.
 

Beagle

Well-known member
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225
Location
France
Agreed with the above. Buying a brand new model from a brand new brand is the best way to overpay and have startup issues.

But also consider this. Everytime KTM/Beta etc come out with a new model the previous one dropps a 1000 euro to get them out of the showrooms. So far i know both have come out with a new model since last years november (then i got my Stark) so in the conventional bike market i would have lost the 1000 too.
Yeah I understand early adopters being a bit sorry for themselves although overall it can only be a good thing to have more affordable bikes.

Another thing to consider is the unparalleled 2 years warranty covering all the issues that appeared, especially for early batches.

Also, the Varg gets OTA updates, so wether you bought it in 2023 or 2025 you'll benefit from the latest software improvements, extended range and so on. This is quite unique and stands in contrast with typical model years where your bike value artificially decreases because of BNG for new model year.

So yeah I get what some early adopters are saying but it's not all that bleak IMO (admittedly easy thing to say when it's not my money of course).
 

Erwin P

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It's my money as an early adapter. Offcourse i would have loved the prices of new ones to stay were the were, but i knew this bike is cheaper to build than a ICE, so prices would come down.
I just hope second hand prices will stay good enough until i got the change to buy the plated enduro when it comes out.

Part of the value for me also was barely anyone had one of those. You were (and still a bit are) quite an unique appearance on the track.
 

Brillie35

Make Alta Great Again
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Netherlands
The second model year Alta that also had noteworthy upgrades over the previous model was significantly lowered in price.
3000 or 4000$ if i remember correctly.
I believe some members here felt shortchanged and they recieved a fast charger to compensate from Alta.
In the end the price reduction didn't end well, butt they probably had to do something to sell more bikes.
Just like Stark.

Has the price difference for the EU-USA something to do with VAT/sales tax?
If you live in the USA and buy out of state, do you avoid sales tax?
And if so, why would anybody buy it in his own state?
 

Beagle

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France
US price is actually really cheap!
$11 000 is about 10 100 €.
Official price for Europe is 12 000 €. Might as well import one back from the US 🤣
 

Brillie35

Make Alta Great Again
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Location
Netherlands
EU price without VAT is around €10.000
So if USA price is without sales tax they are quite equally priced from the factory.
 

Brillie35

Make Alta Great Again
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Also all models seem to be 80hp now.
Did the latest update convert all 60hp models to 80?
Are there known solutions to upgrade a 60hp model to 80?
 

Beagle

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France
EU price without VAT is around €10.000
So if USA price is without sales tax they are quite equally priced from the factory.
Edit: nope, just no, I got it all wrong, thanks Theo.
I guess this part was right
no one advertises vehicle prices without VAT here
🫣

I wish.

Europe price is 11 999 € without VAT but I agree Stark website does not make that really clear (switch countries with different VAT and total is still the same but the line below, taxes, will change).

For instance in France it will be 11 999 + 2 000 VAT + 99 shipping = 14 097 € (over $15 000).

That's still a lower price than before of course, basically the new prices with VAT is the old price without VAT.

But no one advertises vehicle prices without VAT here (except for professional vehicles) so it's definitely misleading.
 

Beagle

Well-known member
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France
Also all models seem to be 80hp now.
Did the latest update convert all 60hp models to 80?
Are there known solutions to upgrade a 60hp model to 80?
Yes they did that recently about the same time as new pricing.
There used to be an option from the app to "buy" Alpha mode for a little over $1000/1000€, not sure if that's still there.

This makes me moderately hopeful that they're getting away from this horrible trend of "software as a service", paying extra to unlock features that are already built-in. Maybe they've re-thought their "incoming update to unlock features advertised since launch" with monthly subscription when they've seen some push back... or maybe they're just late 😆
 

Theo

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Italy
I wish.

Europe price is 11 999 € without VAT but I agree Stark website does not make that really clear (switch countries with different VAT and total is still the same but the line below, taxes, will change).

For instance in France it will be 11 999 + 2 000 VAT + 99 shipping = 14 097 € (over $15 000).

That's still a lower price than before of course, basically the new prices with VAT is the old price without VAT.

But no one advertises vehicle prices without VAT here (except for professional vehicles) so it's definitely misleading.

Rounding the figures and forgetting the 999 €/$, here in Italy:
• the Alpha used to cost 14 K €
• the 60 HP used to cost 13 K €, which is what I paid including VAT

Now on Stark's site I read that there is only the Alpha option, for 12K € including taxes.
 

Beagle

Well-known member
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Location
France
Rounding the figures and forgetting the 999 €/$, here in Italy:
• the Alpha used to cost 14 K €
• the 60 HP used to cost 13 K €, which is what I paid including VAT

Now on Stark's site I read that there is only the Alpha option, for 12K € including taxes.
Hell yeah you're right, I tried with VAT number from random company and the price drops. Also means they adjust their own price in each EU country to keep identical price all over EU (with different VAT rates).

I was completely wrong that's 12 k€ VAT included so that's now pretty competitive, cheaper than KTM 450 SXF.

Europe price is a tad over $13k taxes included. Some US dealer advertise the Varg at "$11k OTD cash price" so all taxes included?

 

Erwin P

Active member
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Here in the Netherlands it's €11,999 incluiding all taxes and shipment delivered at the dealer.

That's way cheaper than the KTM's and almost inline with the Japanese that sit around the €10.500 mark. Only Suzuki is way cheaper but that's an ancient kickstarter design.
Sad for us early adapters, but having prices level with the Japanese and way under KTM will get them a lott of sales.
 

Beagle

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Location
France
Here in France

2025 SX450F: 12 450€

350: 12 129€

250: 11 819€

So the Varg is now slightly cheaper than 450SXF and slots in between the 350 and 250.
 

jswr450

Active member
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Location
Northern California
I wish I got the lower price, but hopefully they will sell a ton of bikes, stay in business, and revolutionize the sport. The crazy pandemic buying is over, so having the bike be the same or less than a gas bike is a good move to sell more bikes and finish what they've started so to speak.

Time will tell, but if I get 500+ hours of ride time on the bike with just tires, chains, and brakes, it will be the cheapest dirt bike I've bought...And for the price of a plastics kit, you can make the bike look almost new for not very much money.
 
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