Our own Alta software/firmware team -- Join in

[schwankl]

I have asked Alta to buy a laptop ~2mo ago...no response. Waiting for a disgruntled, or very cool, employee. ...could non-intrusively copy a laptop - if not encrypted - a "dealer" could take out the drive, run a "dd" command (free program) to copy the drive, and puts it back into the laptop, would pay for that too (PM me). The alta software is probably just a device driver to talk via can bus or whatever protocol they are using, and the software to view logs, get/set values, set/push firmware.

 

[bluefxstc]

I have asked Alta to buy a laptop ~2mo ago...no response. Waiting for a disgruntled, or very cool, employee. ...could non-intrusively copy a laptop - if not encrypted - a "dealer" could take out the drive, run a "dd" command (free program) to copy the drive, and puts it back into the laptop, would pay for that too (PM me). The alta software is probably just a device driver to talk via can bus or whatever protocol they are using, and the software to view logs, get/set values, set/push firmware.

You would also need the adapter that would go from the computer to the bike. It has at least a specialized plug for the bike and I believe CAN has a 120 Ω termination requirement. Nothing huge, but it is more than just the program.

 

[datadog]

If no one is creating new firmware and the server it lived on is turned off, there's no need for a laptop to update it. There are diagnostic features there, but there are no actual problem solving features. Without the ability to view gathered data, it's simply a code reader. Those are already on the dash anyway.

 

[strider]

If no one is creating new firmware and the server it lived on is turned off, there's no need for a laptop to update it. There are diagnostic features there, but there are no actual problem solving features. Without the ability to view gathered data, it's simply a code reader. Those are already on the dash anyway.

I think the question was in relation to replacing the dash. It's our understanding that the dash has to be initialized with the laptop if it's replaced. If we end up having to salvage wrecked units we'll need a way to do that.

 

[schwankl]

@datadog - could always spoof dns and run your own server once you see what the request(s) and response(s) are. They probably have most if not all settings baked into the firmware, so thats something we will need to solve: software to build a firmware bin... Ready to hack this tho - if just for fun and my own map 5. Any other software or electrical engineers want to team up?

 

[datadog]

I think the question was in relation to replacing the dash. It's our understanding that the dash has to be initialized with the laptop if it's replaced. If we end up having to salvage wrecked units we'll need a way to do that.

Dealers can still do that.

 

[Mark911]

Any other software or electrical engineers want to team up?

I'm in. I recently tried to "de-lid" the host processor to check out what chip they're using but Alta's got that thing pretty well glued together. Damn! However, I'm pretty sure they're using CAN FD J2284-5-2016-09.

 

[bluefxstc]

What would be nice to have is the software they use to tune/customize the factory bikes and the settings for the various maps they are currently using. With that we could make our own custom maps which would be nice. It would also be beneficial to look at the the code they are using on the bikes in case we need to replace/build a new controller for the bike. I am not to worried about the motor or gear box having issues. Even the batteries should be pretty reliable and fairly easy to replace if needed. The proprietary electronics on the other hand could be difficult to replace or fix if they fail so that is where I see the weak point of the bikes if Alta is no more. Still hoping for the best, but then I am an optimist. If it fails I will clean it up, lighten it up, and mount it to the wall or ceiling of my barn as shop art.

 

[Mark911]

I suggest we all pitch in and buy a bike just to dissect and try and reverse engineer. I'm pretty confident in my judgement and abilities but there are some components on my personal bike I'm not prepared to risk poking and prodding too much in the search for knowledge. Not sure how to handle the logistics, however.

 

[Silent But Dirty]

I suggest we all pitch in and buy a bike just to dissect and try and reverse engineer. I'm pretty confident in my judgement and abilities but there are some components on my personal bike I'm not prepared to risk poking and prodding too much in the search for knowledge. Not sure how to handle the logistics, however.

I would be in for this, but not until we hear from @Honcho what is happening on their end

 

[Philip]

Did anybody on the forum shell out the 2 grand for a service laptop? Last time I inquired that was the only OEM option available for interfacing with the bike.

Maybe. But let's wait for the news announcement.

 

[Speedkills]

@datadog - could always spoof dns and run your own server once you see what the request(s) and response(s) are. They probably have most if not all settings baked into the firmware, so thats something we will need to solve: software to build a firmware bin... Ready to hack this tho - if just for fun and my own map 5. Any other software or electrical engineers want to team up?

I'd love to work on traction control and wheelie mode!

 

[schwankl]

who's up for reverse map-4 ... who says you cannot jump bikes switch?

 

[Rix]

I suggest we all pitch in and buy a bike just to dissect and try and reverse engineer. I'm pretty confident in my judgement and abilities but there are some components on my personal bike I'm not prepared to risk poking and prodding too much in the search for knowledge. Not sure how to handle the logistics, however.

Should the worst happen, and Alta is no more, I would be in, and nominate Mark to be the guy to figure our machines out for us. One of the things I would look at is a lower voltage higher amp set up. At over 400 volts hot off the charger, one needs to be super savy with electrician related issues. The battery potential of the EXR/MXR is pushing 39KW HOC, one mistake and it will kill you. At least with a sub 100 volt system, a mistake may not cost a life. I would take a look at a changing out the controller, have the motor's stater rewound to spin 13000+RPM at 84 volts (20s) (if possible) and use a controller capable of 400 amps DC to power the machine. We would loose peak power and range, lower volt systems aren't nearly as efficient as high volt systems. This is probably one of the reasons Alta went the route they did.

 

[OneLapper]

I suggest we all pitch in and buy a bike just to dissect and try and reverse engineer. I'm pretty confident in my judgement and abilities but there are some components on my personal bike I'm not prepared to risk poking and prodding too much in the search for knowledge. Not sure how to handle the logistics, however.

Count me in

 

[strider]

Should the worst happen, and Alta is no more, I would be in, and nominate Mark to be the guy to figure our machines out for us. One of the things I would look at is a lower voltage higher amp set up. At over 400 volts hot off the charger, one needs to be super savy with electrician related issues. The battery potential of the EXR/MXR is pushing 39KW HOC, one mistake and it will kill you. At least with a sub 100 volt system, a mistake may not cost a life. I would take a look at a changing out the controller, have the motor's stater rewound to spin 13000+RPM at 84 volts (20s) (if possible) and use a controller capable of 400 amps DC to power the machine. We would loose peak power and range, lower volt systems aren't nearly as efficient as high volt systems. This is probably one of the reasons Alta went the route they did.

This is the opposite direction all the EV manufacturers are going. Everyone is moving towards 800V systems. I don't think anyone here would be happy to lose peak power and range (I say that even though I'm still in map 1).

As for @Mark911 idea to buy a bike to dissect, my preference would be to use a crashed one. Way cheaper that way and we aren't taking an Alta out of service. It's just a matter of time until someone crunches one or something happens to render it inoperable. That would by our candidate for going under the knife. Would it matter if it's an R or non-R bike?

 

[privateer703]

It sounds like the first thing (IF Alta does not come back) would be to dissect one of the "code 36" batteries. So far that sounds like the biggest challenge since we would have to rebuild the battery, and this could happen to more bikes I'm sure. At that point you could also dissect the display. You could do that without too much worry of damage and I'm sure we could recreate it. I'd like to make new ones with an aluminum housing.

 

[Rix]

This is the opposite direction all the EV manufacturers are going. Everyone is moving towards 800V systems. I don't think anyone here would be happy to lose peak power and range (I say that even though I'm still in map 1).

As for @Mark911 idea to buy a bike to dissect, my preference would be to use a crashed one. Way cheaper that way and we aren't taking an Alta out of service. It's just a matter of time until someone crunches one or something happens to render it inoperable. That would by our candidate for going under the knife. Would it matter if it's an R or non-R bike?

Absolutely correct, its the opposite direction every one is going towards and we would loose some power and efficiency. I would like to clarify this is something I would look at doing just for my own reasons, if the event worst case scenario plays out, and I had some kind of failure I couldn't get repaired, or repair myself to keep my bike operational. Of course if we were to have Mark do his thing, it would be to emulate the current set up.

 

[snydes]

It sounds like the first thing (IF Alta does not come back) would be to dissect one of the "code 36" batteries. So far that sounds like the biggest challenge since we would have to rebuild the battery, and this could happen to more bikes I'm sure. At that point you could also dissect the display. You could do that without too much worry of damage and I'm sure we could recreate it. I'd like to make new ones with an aluminum housing.

As far as I am aware, @Bloak and myself are the only two here (so far) in the same S.O.L. situation with the code 36. Almost need to see a dissected one of those failed batteries next to the revised design and figure out what they changed.

 

[datadog]

As far as I am aware, @Bloak and myself are the only two here (so far) in the same S.O.L. situation with the code 36. Almost need to see a dissected one of those failed batteries next to the revised design and figure out what they changed.

The batteries are exactly the same. Improvements were made to manufacturing processes to prevent the issue from reoccurring. You would not be able to see those changes.