Stark's Battery pic


happyinmotion

Member
Location
New Zealand
EU has a bunch of standards for electric vehicle batteries that manufacturers must meet to be able to sell EVs in Europe. Homologation means meeting these standards. They cover battery safety, mechanical shock, vibration testing, fire safety, shorts protection, etc... I thinkEU is also bringing in battery recycling requirements to make it easier to recycle batteries at end of life.

Arcplus has battery testing facilities in Barcelona.

I thought these were just for on-road vehicles, but I'm not an expert in the legislation. Anyway, if someone is Europe is handing over € 12 900 then it makes sense for Stark to meet relevant European standards even if they don't legally have to.

Like, my Stark will live in my house, so I want to be certain that it won't catch fire while charging.

Also, comparing the new batteries in these pics (and also in the pics of the grey Starks) versus the original design on the red bikes, it looks like they've really reshaped the front top corner of the battery. They've possibly moved the big battery connectors from the top back of the battery to the front? I'm also squinting at some of the pics and maybe there's some kind of control unit hidden under the carbon shroud, just behind the head tube?
 

Number Six

Well-known member
Location
Midwest
Like, my Stark will live in my house, so I want to be certain that it won't catch fire while charging.

Indeed.
I'll only charge while I'm available to monitor things.
Once charged up - is it a safer condition to disconnect the battery when not in use ? Say if it sits for a week or more before next ride.
.
 

Rashid510

Well-known member
Forum's Sponsor
Indeed.
I'll only charge while I'm available to monitor things.
Once charged up - is it a safer condition to disconnect the battery when not in use ? Say if it sits for a week or more before next ride.
.

Whoa. Unless the Stark version of a control module does not regulate, its not persay smart to disconnect the battery from the vehicle. The pack should have a BMS. That BMS needs to be able to sense with the vehicle (unless its redundant). Along with that the pack will be balancing after charging so even disconnecting will not be ideal.
EU has a bunch of standards for electric vehicle batteries that manufacturers must meet to be able to sell EVs in Europe. Homologation means meeting these standards. They cover battery safety, mechanical shock, vibration testing, fire safety, shorts protection, etc... I thinkEU is also bringing in battery recycling requirements to make it easier to recycle batteries at end of life.

Arcplus has battery testing facilities in Barcelona.

I thought these were just for on-road vehicles, but I'm not an expert in the legislation. Anyway, if someone is Europe is handing over € 12 900 then it makes sense for Stark to meet relevant European standards even if they don't legally have to.

Like, my Stark will live in my house, so I want to be certain that it won't catch fire while charging.

Also, comparing the new batteries in these pics (and also in the pics of the grey Starks) versus the original design on the red bikes, it looks like they've really reshaped the front top corner of the battery. They've possibly moved the big battery connectors from the top back of the battery to the front? I'm also squinting at some of the pics and maybe there's some kind of control unit hidden under the carbon shroud, just behind the head tube?

Homologation in general is hard to do in the EU. If you can succeed in the EU, rest of the world is cake. Right before Alta died we were trying suuuper hard to get EU cert.
PS - the HV (orange) connector is an Amphenol conn, just like the Alta R pack conn. Good design and safe as heck.
Signal (LV) conn looks not like a normal Ampseal, probably similar to the Alta, LV connector. Silver one is a charger connector?
 

Bodie_Z

Member
Location
CA
Indeed.
I'll only charge while I'm available to monitor things.
Once charged up - is it a safer condition to disconnect the battery when not in use ? Say if it sits for a week or more before next ride.
.
The battery can choose when to connect to the HV cables using a pair of internal switches called contactors. While the bike is idle (not charging or riding) it opens the contactors to separate the battery from the rest of the HV system. So while the bike is sitting, unplugging the HV connector wouldn't change anything safety related.

The best thing you can do for safe storage is to leave the pack at ~50%, between 10 to 30 degrees C, and low humidity. If youre going to leave it for a very long duration, 80% would be better. Just remember to charge up the night before you go riding!
 

Number Six

Well-known member
Location
Midwest
OK thanks Guys.
Would one be shortening the lifespan or diminish the power of a battery significantly if winter storage in a mostly cold ( Indiana ) climate is in an unheated garage ?
Sure would be easy to just bring a battery inside, but alas ..
.
 

Rashid510

Well-known member
Forum's Sponsor
OK thanks Guys.
Would one be shortening the lifespan or diminish the power of a battery significantly if winter storage in a mostly cold ( Indiana ) climate is in an unheated garage ?
Sure would be easy to just bring a battery inside, but alas ..
.

It should not. Yes batteries hate cold (hence why most EVs have heat pumps) but it will still perform/store just fine. Both my Altas even though are in CA, live in unheated garages and have never had any performance drops due to cold.
 

Bodie_Z

Member
Location
CA
OK thanks Guys.
Would one be shortening the lifespan or diminish the power of a battery significantly if winter storage in a mostly cold ( Indiana ) climate is in an unheated garage ?
Sure would be easy to just bring a battery inside, but alas ..
.
There will be marginally more degradation if stored at low temperatures, but I wouldnt worry too much unless its getting to -20 to -30 degrees C. However, you should never charge the bike when it is cold. Always try to warm it up to around 5 degrees C first.
 

fsfs

Well-known member
Location
HRV
Indeed.
I'll only charge while I'm available to monitor things.
Once charged up - is it a safer condition to disconnect the battery when not in use ? Say if it sits for a week or more before next ride

Bodie_Z was pretty much right on with his reply. I will just expand a little bit because the architecture is a bit different than the Alta. There are two connectors on the battery. The orange connector supplies ~360V to the bike when the two main contactors are closed. The smaller black round connector (with dust cap) is for 12V and CAN bus. 12V is used to close the main contactors. The 12V is supplied by the main DC to DC converter which is inside the inverter. So if you disconnect the 12V/CAN connector there is no way to close the main contactors -- it is easier and quicker to do that.

BTW, there is a 18650 "startup" cell in the bike. When you press the start button you activate a boost converter which boosts the 3.6V to 12V and powers the BMS inside the battery. Once the main DC to DC is supplying 12V, there is a trickle charger to keep the 18650 startup cell topped up.
 

Number Six

Well-known member
Location
Midwest
Thanks.
Doesn't sound like one would need to be too concerned about the battery, the bike can come inside during the worst ( Jan, Feb ) months, not really riding much if any during that time in this climate.

The 12V comment is intriguing though .. is there a usable 12V output to power an LED headlight or similar if desired ?

.
 

fsfs

Well-known member
Location
HRV
Thanks.
Doesn't sound like one would need to be too concerned about the battery, the bike can come inside during the worst ( Jan, Feb ) months, not really riding much if any during that time in this climate.

The 12V comment is intriguing though .. is there a usable 12V output to power an LED headlight or similar if desired ?

.

There is no spare output from the VCU (vehicle control unit) to drive a LED headlight. However, the DC - DC can put out enough current to drive a LED headlight in addition to the coolant pump, cooling fan, etc. So in theory it is possible to "rig something up".
 

Judaslefourbe

Well-known member
Location
Brisbane, CA
Both my Altas even though are in CA, live in unheated garages and have never had any performance drops due to cold.
California does not qualify as cold. :)

My bikes have been fine staying uncovered in an unheated garage in the Toronto or Boston areas (down to -30C). Batteries will do fine but watch for tires and such.
 

JGCyber3

New member
Location
Windsor, CO
There is no spare output from the VCU (vehicle control unit) to drive a LED headlight. However, the DC - DC can put out enough current to drive a LED headlight in addition to the coolant pump, cooling fan, etc. So in theory it is possible to "rig something up".
Im sure there's a million other priorities for Stark at this time and it is marketed as a track bike, but doesn't this seem like an oversight? Eg a presumably simple add, low cost, extra revenue if coupled with a plug and play light kit, etc and yet impactful for a reasonable percentage of customers? Guessing an "enduro" version would have such, but doesn't help first customers..hopefully"rigging" isn't that difficult or a 3rd party makes an easy solution eventually. Thanks for sharing, at least answers that question definitively.
 

fsfs

Well-known member
Location
HRV
Im sure there's a million other priorities for Stark at this time and it is marketed as a track bike, but doesn't this seem like an oversight? Eg a presumably simple add, low cost, extra revenue if coupled with a plug and play light kit, etc and yet impactful for a reasonable percentage of customers? Guessing an "enduro" version would have such, but doesn't help first customers..hopefully"rigging" isn't that difficult or a 3rd party makes an easy solution eventually. Thanks for sharing, at least answers that question definitively.

The physical space for the VCU (vehicle control unit) is very tight. We might have been able to put an output for a headlight but that is about it. So, no blinkers, tail light, etc. However, there are 4 spare pins. Two for +12V, NEG/Chassis. Two for communication. That can then connect to a LCM (light control module) which connects to the lights and switches on the handlebars. That is basically the only approach that works for this particular case.
 

JGCyber3

New member
Location
Windsor, CO
The physical space for the VCU (vehicle control unit) is very tight. We might have been able to put an output for a headlight but that is about it. So, no blinkers, tail light, etc. However, there are 4 spare pins. Two for +12V, NEG/Chassis. Two for communication. That can then connect to a LCM (light control module) which connects to the lights and switches on the handlebars. That is basically the only approach that works for this particular case.
Fair enough, appreciate the inputs and info - very cool! And the spare pins at least give a path to a solution (as you said) - so we're in business!
 

Number Six

Well-known member
Location
Midwest
There is no spare output from the VCU (vehicle control unit) to drive a LED headlight. However, the DC - DC can put out enough current to drive a LED headlight in addition to the coolant pump, cooling fan, etc. So in theory it is possible to "rig something up".
Thanks ! Good news indeed.
A low watt draw LED headlight & maybe tiny tail light would only need be operable during inspection to be in compliance with some event rules.
 

fsfs

Well-known member
Location
HRV
Also, comparing the new batteries in these pics (and also in the pics of the grey Starks) versus the original design on the red bikes, it looks like they've really reshaped the front top corner of the battery. They've possibly moved the big battery connectors from the top back of the battery to the front? I'm also squinting at some of the pics and maybe there's some kind of control unit hidden under the carbon shroud, just behind the head tube?

Correct, moving those things to the front means the battery is a bit less tall which increases the ground clearance.
 

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