Sur Ron Storm Bee vs Alta Redshift - my test drive

[E-woodrider]

I should also mention that the bike came with a 3 year warranty on the battery, 2 year warranty on the power train so hopefully if I have an issue it'll be covered...

Yes, that's fine, but wait until they tell you it's got to go back to Poland to be fixed. Maybe in the USA they've got another arrangement, but if you're in the UK / Europe, you have to pay for shipping back to the battery factory in Poland, pay 250 Euros for it to be inspected to tell you if its repairable and the factory WERE only operating one day per month on repairs. Colleagues of mine with E-Parks were waiting 12 months for batteries and chargers to be returned with 'hot plug' issues which is why we elected to by-pass the official KTM repair channel. Its total BS.

 

[Rocketz152]

No, we were on a clay track / dusty environment at times and anything like that could get messy and may cause more issues than it solves. A blow out with an air hose (or vacuum) and occasional bit of contact cleaner. Your hours are still quite low and number of recharges probably less than 30. You will feel the charge plug getting hot if its sparking internally and you'd see some signs of wear / discolouration on the pins. Health and Safety would no doubt tell me NOT to advise touching the charge plug when on charge BUT, if you did happen to touch it and it felt uncomfortably warm (like 'yow'), then take it off charge. KTM updated the chargers about 12 months ago but they still use those thin pin plugs . . .another missed opportunity to resolve it. They even licensed that plug exclusive to them via a component manufacturer - so they clearly think its wonderful. So you can't easily replace or renew. The new style charger now has a detachable charge lead but from what I can tell, that lead is not listed as a separate KTM part that you can buy on its own if the original gets frazzled. Again . . .durrrr ! So, potentially a $1,000 for a new charger if your plug fries whereas a new cable could be less than $100. . . .actually its KTM, so $300

Sounds like I ride in the same kind of environment as you (hard pack/dust lol)... I didn't use any di-electric grease or anything either. I'll keep an eye on the pins and connector plug. I'm at 34 charges (I document every time I charge) so your estimate was super close lol. Hopefully with more and more people opening up to electric bikes/vehicles and other brands diving into the electric market it'll help with getting some of these replacement parts/cords. I can't see KTM taking a back seat to the stark varg or the Jap bikes once they roll out their electrics... thanks for your information and insight to the freeride.

 

[Oded]

I've owned a few of them. Things to watch out for : Moisture Sensor warnings - if you get those regularly I would take it to your KTM dealer to have the controller coolant grommit seals checked. Drove us crazy for months / even years until KTM finally admitted that coolant can leak at that point and not only trigger the sensor but screw the controller. . . .which is a $2,500 part. Charger Plug Overheat : the skinny pins that KTM use in the charge plug can wear and over time cause arcing when charging. This causes heat in the plug and can lead to it literally blowing the charge plug out of the battery - usually with a lot of smoke and damaged circuitry in the charger and BMS of the battery. We had 9 chargers and 9 batteries blown to scrap because of this. Other E-Parks experienced the same. Of course, KTM said it wasn't an issue. We went and got our remaining chargers and battery connectors upgraded through an Aerospace level electronics company. Problem solved but KTM blew their gasket at us doing that and would rather see us buying new chargers and batteries (or go out of business) due to their crap design. Wheel hubs : the hubs are made of chocolate and bearings literally fall out over time. Change the hubs if you get the chance. 12v Battery : Disconnect when not in use. If that runs flat (and it does easily), the bike won't power up. These are just a few to watch out for . . . but in the main, they are a decent bike.

Thanks for the valuable information!
Do you still use the Freerides in your park?

 

[E-woodrider]

Thanks for the valuable information!
Do you still use the Freerides in your park?

We've shut the park down for now. COVID, two major thefts (16 bikes stolen) and the likelihood I'll be selling the land for housing just made me rethink the whole thing. We may well be opening a new 'All Electric' venue at a woodland location with a 4-5 mile Enduro circuit in there. It will focus on Storm and Stark owners . . and of course Freeride-E's would be welcome. We've sold nearly all of our Freeride-E's now . . .I just have 3 left.

 

[Brillie35]

We've shut the park down for now. COVID, two major thefts (16 bikes stolen) and the likelihood I'll be selling the land for housing just made me rethink the whole thing. We may well be opening a new 'All Electric' venue at a woodland location with a 4-5 mile Enduro circuit in there. It will focus on Storm and Stark owners . . and of course Freeride-E's would be welcome. We've sold nearly all of our Freeride-E's now . . .I just have 3 left.

Very interesting to hear about.
And thank you for sharing.

At what kind of hours you start having those leakage problems?
And the connector charge issue?

We had one battery send for repair to Poland, it took indeed about a month to return.
But we did not have to pay for shipping.
And luckily we had a spare pack.

After some initial hours from all our freeride bikes the bolts from the batterypacks itself where loose.
And the bolt where the steel frame meets the aluminium parts.
But no further issues, around the 200 hour mark.

I am very curious,
Before Covid and thefts, how was your buisiness running?
How many empoyees did you need during a day?
How many bikes you where running?
And what's an average amount of hours you put on a bike in 1 year?
Did you also had small kids bikes to run?
And if so, where they more profitable then the big bikes?
Did there often happen accidents?

Thanks

 

[E-woodrider]

Very interesting to hear about.
And thank you for sharing.

At what kind of hours you start having those leakage problems?
And the connector charge issue?

We had one battery send for repair to Poland, it took indeed about a month to return.
But we did not have to pay for shipping.
And luckily we had a spare pack.

After some initial hours from all our freeride bikes the bolts from the batterypacks itself where loose.
And the bolt where the steel frame meets the aluminium parts.
But no further issues, around the 200 hour mark.

I am very curious,
Before Covid and thefts, how was your buisiness running?
How many empoyees did you need during a day?
How many bikes you where running?
And what's an average amount of hours you put on a bike in 1 year?
Did you also had small kids bikes to run?
And if so, where they more profitable then the big bikes?
Did there often happen accidents?

Thanks

Sounds like a business plan in the making . . . . If I was advising anybody, I'd say "Don't Do It !" . . . . but in answer to your questions :

- Before COVID, business was OK. I never set out to make loads of money out of it but just to prove to myself that it could be done. We built a track and a 4500 sqft facilities building and developed a stock of bikes up to about 50 : 27 x Freeride-E's, 12 x OSET 24's, 6 x OSET 20's, 2 x EM Escape and a couple of Surron LBX. We rotated the smaller bike stock but the Freerides not so much. We originally started in 2014 with about 10 Quantya's, and 6 OSET's so a lot of what we made went back into the bike stock.
- 4-5 Employees
- Up to 30 bikes in use on any given day.
- about 150-200 hours per year . .often light use as generally it was training of beginners
- Had some Kuberg Cross bikes and some OSET 20's for kids.
- Kids stuff definitely more profitable if you can tolerate dealing with kids (and their parents). Bikes cheaper, parts cheaper, prices can be about the same. But I preferred dealing with Adults
- Accidents - yes of course - broken legs, arms, back, numerous bad cuts. Find good insurance! . .and be aware that people will deliberately crash in order to sue you.

Re. your earlier questions :
The coolant issue varied - some bikes after just a few hours. The hot plug issue started to become evident after about 150 charges.

And lucky you got it back in a month. Maybe they've had a kick up the arse!

 

[Oded]

Very interesting. Thanks again for sharing.
How did you find the Osets (quality wise)? I own a Oset 24, and was quite disappointed (quality wise - motor and such).
I guess the EM Escapes were hassle free.

 

[E-woodrider]

OSET 24's - Poor battery (high failure rate), basic chinese motor, forks - rubbish. Really nothing special.
EM's - Not a bad bike at all. Chargers were a bit unreliable but I think they've now moved on with that. Seem to have a much better British motor / controller system compared to the Kelly controller / Golden Motors that were in ours. But a great size bike for ladies to learn on with very controllable power. One of ours was stolen and was being used by a guy selling drugs on a Liverpool housing estate. Sadly for him, it couldn't outrun a police car ! We got that bike back but it was fairly wrecked and was sold on Ebay to a guy in Czech.

 

[Brillie35]

Sounds like a business plan in the making . . . . If I was advising anybody, I'd say "Don't Do It !" . . . . but in answer to your questions :

- Before COVID, business was OK. I never set out to make loads of money out of it but just to prove to myself that it could be done. We built a track and a 4500 sqft facilities building and developed a stock of bikes up to about 50 : 27 x Freeride-E's, 12 x OSET 24's, 6 x OSET 20's, 2 x EM Escape and a couple of Surron LBX. We rotated the smaller bike stock but the Freerides not so much. We originally started in 2014 with about 10 Quantya's, and 6 OSET's so a lot of what we made went back into the bike stock.
- 4-5 Employees
- Up to 30 bikes in use on any given day.
- about 150-200 hours per year . .often light use as generally it was training of beginners
- Had some Kuberg Cross bikes and some OSET 20's for kids.
- Kids stuff definitely more profitable if you can tolerate dealing with kids (and their parents). Bikes cheaper, parts cheaper, prices can be about the same. But I preferred dealing with Adults
- Accidents - yes of course - broken legs, arms, back, numerous bad cuts. Find good insurance! . .and be aware that people will deliberately crash in order to sue you.

Re. your earlier questions :
The coolant issue varied - some bikes after just a few hours. The hot plug issue started to become evident after about 150 charges.

And lucky you got it back in a month. Maybe they've had a kick up the arse!

Thanks for the insight
What was your e-park called? So i can check youtube to see what your setup looked like.

Could you lease the bikes from KTM?
Or buy at a discount?
When we bought ours in 2017 they were selling them for half price.
I did found that very strange.
And I was wondering what to expect when you buy them in bulk.

 

[Brillie35]

Thanks for the insight
What was your e-park called? So i can check youtube to see what your setup looked like.

Could you lease the bikes from KTM?
Or buy at a discount?
When we bought ours in 2017 they were selling them for half price.
I did found that very strange.
And I was wondering what to expect when you buy them in bulk.

Did find the name in your bio.
Looks very nice.
But did you guys only have a outdoor track to ride?

 

[Oded]

I visited an e-moto track in Austria (I think it was called Area 51), they used the previous version of the Freerides, but limited their power, so even at full throttle, you couldn't jump it.
But I am sure it prevented many injuries.

 

[E-woodrider]

Did find the name in your bio.
Looks very nice.
But did you guys only have a outdoor track to ride?

I have never seen that video before I think must have been made by a customer . . .

This is ours - bit dated now but OK . ..

Just outdoors . . . .come rain or shine !

 

[E-woodrider]

Thanks for the insight
What was your e-park called? So i can check youtube to see what your setup looked like.

Could you lease the bikes from KTM?
Or buy at a discount?
When we bought ours in 2017 they were selling them for half price.
I did found that very strange.
And I was wondering what to expect when you buy them in bulk.

Yes, in 2016 KTM made too many (or over-anticipated sales) so were getting shut of them cheap - so yes, we bought a few then as well. No advantage in price being an E-PARK.

 

[Oded]

Had a chance to ride my friend's Storm bee today. This time we switched bikes and I had a long ride on it.

Few things I noticed:
- eco mode is for very novice riders or when range is a real concern. It is less powerful than the Alta's mode 1 by a margin. Sport mode is where you want to be.
- Throttle's spring is not as strong as in the Alta. Less feedback than the Alta's throttle. Wrote before but there is a 10-15% dead band.
- seat is firm and narrow, more than the Alta.
- Storm bee's sitting position is lower than the Alta's by a bit.
- I really like the Storm bee's led lights (all around are leds).
We rode trails and both bikes lost about 20% battery capacity. However, my friend said that below 30% capacity it goes quickly to zero, so you can not rely on the capacity graph much.
- reverse mode is great for hard Enduro. Especially on the heavy bikes.

 

[E-woodrider]

Had a chance to ride my friend's Storm bee today. This time we switched bikes and I had a long ride on it.

Few things I noticed:
- eco mode is for very novice riders or when range is a real concern. It is less powerful than the Alta's mode 1 by a margin. Sport mode is where you want to be.
- Throttle's spring is not as strong as in the Alta. Less feedback than the Alta's throttle. Wrote before but there is a 10-15% dead band.
- seat is firm and narrow, more than the Alta.
- Storm bee's sitting position is lower than the Alta's by a bit.
- I really like the Storm bee's led lights (all around are leds).
We rode trails and both bikes lost about 20% battery capacity. However, my friend said that below 30% capacity it goes quickly to zero, so you can not rely on the capacity graph much.
- reverse mode is great for hard Enduro. Especially on the heavy bikes.

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Thanks for your review - how far had you trailed to lose 20% ?. I have one also and am very pleased with it.. . . .I'm not looking for anything to pull my arms off - I've got a VARG on order to do that. Compared to my Freeride-E SX, the Storm Bee has a lower riding position and arguably a lumpier bike, but it turns quick enough. I'd say the Freeride-E has a bit more punch in their respective highest modes. And yes, the Bee's reverse gear is perfect - helped me out many times . . .even getting the bikes out of the van when parked on a downhill slope !

 

[Oded]

Thanks for your review - how far had you trailed to lose 20% ?. I have one also and am very pleased with it.. . . .I'm not looking for anything to pull my arms off - I've got a VARG on order to do that. Compared to my Freeride-E SX, the Storm Bee has a lower riding position and arguably a lumpier bike, but it turns quick enough. I'd say the Freeride-E has a bit more punch in their respective highest modes. And yes, the Bee's reverse gear is perfect - helped me out many times . . .even getting the bikes out of the van when parked on a downhill slope !

It was a one hour ride on a very very gnarly terrain. The kind you mostly ride under 15 km/h, with many rock stairs, and loose rocks all over.
I found it to be about the same height as my Alta, maybe a little lower. Can be seen in the photos I attached. Thought the Freeride will be lower.
When you twist the Storm bee wide open, it does not have the gripping torque of the Alta, but it does get quick fast enough.