Tesla Battery

[Alta_mxr]

Anybody have any idea what the capacity and weight would be with Tesla 4680 battery loaded into Alta enclosure?

 

[snydes]

The first question needs to be whether the new Tesla cell could be utilized in the Alta pack design and the answer to that is no. It would have to be a completely new design built around that cells form factor.

 

[Philip]

We need to ask Elon to engineer a dirt bike frame filled with glued-in battery cells that is lighter and stronger than carbon fiber.

 

[Alta_mxr]

Was mainly asking given the old condition of 5.9kwh and 70# could be improved in the same basic volume and weight by? Would yield how many kwh?

 

[Philip]

Maybe it could be 17% better and 56% cheaper.

 

[VINSANITY]

A lot less bond wires has to be a good thing when making a battery - less cells lowers the chance of something going wrong IMO - also these cells do not have a tab so will allow for more options to connect the cells together - I understand these cells will have better thermal dissipation properties as well.

I imagine this new cell design with eventual materials improvements could increase range in a few years and hopefully drop cost

I wish the Alta wasn’t so licked down from a software perspective as upgrades like these new cells may not be possible Unless someone reverse engineers a controller that can be custom configured

 

[Alta_mxr]

So not 15-18kwh in the same volume and weight?

 

[Motophyllic]

I don’t understand why we’re so locked down with Alta software. Can’t we just get an aftermarket controller? Is it more complicated than I think?

 

[Philip]

I don’t understand why we’re so locked down with Alta software. Can’t we just get an aftermarket controller? Is it more complicated than I think?

You will need an aftermarket controller and an aftermarket inverter in order to control the aftermarket battery. There may not be an elegant way to fit them into the Alta's frame, which is designed for the Alta inverter and battery. It might be easier to just build a brand-new bike.

 

[F451]

You will need an aftermarket controller and an aftermarket inverter in order to control the aftermarket battery. There may not be an elegant way to fit them into the Alta's frame, which is designed for the Alta inverter and battery. It might be easier to just build a brand-new bike.

I would imagine a steel framed bike like a KTM would be much easier to work with if modifications to the frame were necessary as opposed to trying to modify the cast aluminum frame of the Alta.

 

[Alta_mxr]

what I‘m wishing for is an Alta or Ktm or GasGas or Husky with the same overall weight as the Alta or lighter. With 18kwh battery.

 

[revoltlution]

When do the Alta engineers get to start talking about reverse engineering?

 

[Rashid510]

When do the Alta engineers get to start talking about reverse engineering?

When we have the funds necessary to do said reverse engineering. And time. And tacos.

 

[rayivers]

what I‘m wishing for is an Alta or Ktm or GasGas or Husky with the same overall weight as the Alta or lighter. With 18kwh battery.

What I'd really like to see is a 225-235 lb bike with MXR performance/range and a lighter-feeling front end. A sustainable battery/BMS configuration using approx. the Alta case dimensions would also be a huge plus going forward.

 

[privateer703]

When we have the funds necessary to do said reverse engineering. And time. And tacos.

You know if someone is serious about reverse engineering some of the rare boards or maybe trying to develop a replacement battery, there may be a good number of people on here that would contribute money.

 

[Rashid510]

You know if someone is serious about reverse engineering some of the rare boards or maybe trying to develop a replacement battery, there may be a good number of people on here that would contribute money.

Sure, but there was also a push to keep the company alive here, and money was "contributed" or proposed. Usually its more than you need and also the amount of time has passed since that would have been a possibility. Most suppliers have washed clean of the tooling/parts/pcba masks.

A development battery..... Now thats something that can be pondered about possible. The key is needing some sort of piggyback or spoofer which can work with the ACM, but at that point you may just strip out the redshift components and use new stuff inside the Alta frame.

But to the OP's dream of 18kwh in a pack size of the Alta...that would be the thing. Right now the biggest pack is 22kwh on a Energica. Thats with Samsung pouch cells. If you try Elons cells (which first have to be available on the market for procurement) that is one intense battery design. Which also has to handle drops/jumps/crashes/bears.

 

[revoltlution]

go on!

 

[C5tor]

Which also has to handle drops/jumps/crashes/bears.

I would definitely like to see some of the “bear” testing footage from the Alta archives.

 

[F451]

<snips>

But to the OP's dream of 18kwh in a pack size of the Alta...that would be the thing. Right now the biggest pack is 22kwh on a Energica. Thats with Samsung pouch cells. If you try Elons cells (which first have to be available on the market for procurement) that is one intense battery design. Which also has to handle drops/jumps/crashes/bears.

Munro is touting the new batteries from Tesla big time. Around the 6:00 mark of this video, he speculates how the batteries will be surrounded by epoxy creating an incredibly strong structure. I would think the epoxy surround approach would make it strong enough to handle the stresses of a typical dirt bike, but I am no engineer.

It's an interesting video from a mostly non-baised source if anyone is interested in Tesla's new batteries:

 

[OneLapper]

Tesla's new 4680 cells would be great on an Alta. The higher energy density would help, but the tabless construction allows the heat to be effectively dissipated from the top and the bottom of the cells. Thermal management is now, well, manageable.

There was some talk about going open source with the Alta components. As far as I'm aware, all of the individual components that make up the inverter, ACM, BCUs, etc. are commercially available, and all of them have open source software. What Alta did that was amazing was package all of these components, design a motorcycle that works well with all of those components, and then create the software to make all of those components work together.

In theory, someone could start over with the software. Wipe clean the components, load the manufacturers' software, start over. All of this is out of my reach. I think there might two or three people on this forum that are capable of this, but who has the time? Even if we raised $100k, it's still more than a years work. And why? There are less than a thousand Altas out there. Hell, they made more DeLoreans than Altas!

I still think breaking Alta's encryption is the path of least resistance, but again, I'm not capable, as nearly all of us here are not capable.

Maybe someday we can make a Tesla cell powered, 100 mile range, 75 hp Alta. I'll definitely keep mine, hoping for that day.