General The "Big 6" will catch up... maybe in 4-5 years

[Philip]

... Everyone is really-really far behind the eight-ball.

 

[DirtFirst]

Have to disagree with Tortelli about other manufacturers being behind. KTM has had their production electric bike available since 2014, and the 2023 models are scheduled for delivery in September.
-We have been winning races and placing in AMA National Events with our KTM Freeride Superminis for two years now. The Stark Varg has yet to ENTER a race, much less win. They are way behind us on that one.
-We can swap a battery in 45 seconds. Stark will need to do a redesign to catch up, if anyone wants to race a NCGP or a NHHA event on one of their bikes. Maybe in a couple of years?
-I’m aware that our race bike is a Supermini, but its well sorted and we can out distance the Stark Varg in offroad racing. We finished a 1hr 42min National Youth desert race in the top 10.
It’s actually kind of lonely at GlenHelen when your the only electric team there, and I’m looking forward to racing against the Stark Varg. I want them to succeed for sure.
Hopefully the Stark Varg will live up to the hype, and give our DirtFirst team riders a competitive full size bike to transition to.
I don’t usually post, but I had to set the record straight on this one.
Andy Lagzdins

 

[Philip]

Congrats on your electric racing achievements, @DirtFirst!

Not to try to diminish the accomplishments of KTM, but I think the Gypsies were talking about Stark Future being ambitious enough to take a technological leading role in the dirt bike industry. And, from what I am hearing, they could take a lead in sales too, which would be truly remarkable for the whole dirt bike industry and community.

I would not pay any attention to various self-given titles that bike manufacturers give themselves. If Alta was still alive, there would have been a 4-way tie for both "the first" and "the leading" dirt bike manufacturer titles between Stark, KTM, Alta, and some scooter company from China who has been making off-road e-bikes since year 2000. Just take a peek at this:

Electric Motorcycle-China Electric Motorcycle Manufacturers & Suppliers | Made in China

China Electric Motorcycle - Select 2022 Electric Motorcycle products from verified China Electric Motorcycle manufacturers, suppliers on Made-in-China.com.

m.made-in-china.com

 

[Brillie35]

Have to disagree with Tortelli about other manufacturers being behind. KTM has had their production electric bike available since 2014, and the 2023 models are scheduled for delivery in September.
-We have been winning races and placing in AMA National Events with our KTM Freeride Superminis for two years now. The Stark Varg has yet to ENTER a race, much less win. They are way behind us on that one.
-We can swap a battery in 45 seconds. Stark will need to do a redesign to catch up, if anyone wants to race a NCGP or a NHHA event on one of their bikes. Maybe in a couple of years?
-I’m aware that our race bike is a Supermini, but its well sorted and we can out distance the Stark Varg in offroad racing. We finished a 1hr 42min National Youth desert race in the top 10.
It’s actually kind of lonely at GlenHelen when your the only electric team there, and I’m looking forward to racing against the Stark Varg. I want them to succeed for sure.
Hopefully the Stark Varg will live up to the hype, and give our DirtFirst team riders a competitive full size bike to transition to.
I don’t usually post, but I had to set the record straight on this one.
Andy Lagzdins

View attachment 8712

How many times you had to swap the battery for a 1hr 42min race?

 

[Brillie35]

And what wheel and sprocket size are you guys using?
And where you able to do any upgrades to the motor or controller?

 

[DirtFirst]

How many times you had to swap the battery for a 1hr 42min race?

I believe we did 5 battery swaps in that race.

 

[DirtFirst]

And what wheel and sprocket size are you guys using?
And where you able to do any upgrades to the motor or controller?

For most MX tracks 13/46 is good, for Desert we usually run 13/40. The wheels are standard Supermini 19” front 16” rear.
There is a full build article on DirtFirstRacing.com if you want more info.

 

[Brillie35]

Thanks for the info and nice article
I probably going to do this conversion to my freeride when my kids are old enough to ride it.

 

[Johnny Depp]

Have to disagree with Tortelli about other manufacturers being behind. KTM has had their production electric bike available since 2014, and the 2023 models are scheduled for delivery in September.
-We have been winning races and placing in AMA National Events with our KTM Freeride Superminis for two years now. The Stark Varg has yet to ENTER a race, much less win. They are way behind us on that one.
-We can swap a battery in 45 seconds. Stark will need to do a redesign to catch up, if anyone wants to race a NCGP or a NHHA event on one of their bikes. Maybe in a couple of years?
-I’m aware that our race bike is a Supermini, but its well sorted and we can out distance the Stark Varg in offroad racing. We finished a 1hr 42min National Youth desert race in the top 10.
It’s actually kind of lonely at GlenHelen when your the only electric team there, and I’m looking forward to racing against the Stark Varg. I want them to succeed for sure.
Hopefully the Stark Varg will live up to the hype, and give our DirtFirst team riders a competitive full size bike to transition to.
I don’t usually post, but I had to set the record straight on this one.
Andy Lagzdins

View attachment 8712 Awesome to see your enthusiasm (and big budget) for pioneering e-bike racing! Congratulations on your team and it's results. This deserves more attention, as it is a 1st class non factory effort. You confirm the MX ability, and show how it is done in off road. I'd guess the battery swaps still put you at a large disadvantage that even a top performing bike would find hard to overcome?

In the Stark release, it was stated that 2 people could swap a Stark battery in 1 minute with 3 bolts and 1 tool. I look forward to you putting the Stark to the torture test! I shared this at Thumpertalk electric also.

 

[DirtFirst]

In the Stark release, it was stated that 2 people could swap a Stark battery in 1 minute with 3 bolts and 1 tool. I look forward to you putting the Stark to the torture test! I shared this at Thumpertalk electric also.

Can you send a link to that release with the battery swap info?
If that’s true it would be a huge plus.
The KTM batteries are $4000, the Varg batteries will sell for more than that I would imagine, but some serious racers will buy them if they are easily swapped.

 

[Philip]

In the Stark release, it was stated that 2 people could swap a Stark battery in 1 minute with 3 bolts and 1 tool. I look forward to you putting the Stark to the torture test! I shared this at Thumpertalk electric also.

I think the "tool" would also be somewhat complex and possibly expensive. If you remove the structural battery pack, then the bike can fall apart, unless it is held by the "tool" and two people. But I am really glad that this tool exists and Stark finally realized that there will be a demand for it, as well as for spare batteries, even at $5K a pop!

 

[fsfs]

Have to disagree with Tortelli about other manufacturers being behind. KTM has had their production electric bike available since 2014, and the 2023 models are scheduled for delivery in September.
-We have been winning races and placing in AMA National Events with our KTM Freeride Superminis for two years now. The Stark Varg has yet to ENTER a race, much less win. They are way behind us on that one.
-We can swap a battery in 45 seconds. Stark will need to do a redesign to catch up, if anyone wants to race a NCGP or a NHHA event on one of their bikes. Maybe in a couple of years?
-I’m aware that our race bike is a Supermini, but its well sorted and we can out distance the Stark Varg in offroad racing. We finished a 1hr 42min National Youth desert race in the top 10.
It’s actually kind of lonely at GlenHelen when your the only electric team there, and I’m looking forward to racing against the Stark Varg. I want them to succeed for sure.
Hopefully the Stark Varg will live up to the hype, and give our DirtFirst team riders a competitive full size bike to transition to.
I don’t usually post, but I had to set the record straight on this one.
Andy Lagzdins

There is a context to what Tortelli said. So far there has been one produced bike intended to take on combustion bikes -- Alta with target of 250F. Now we are approaching production of the Varg -- target of 450F. Both these companies didn't/don't produce combustion bikes. The freeride doesn't fall into this category; it is not even close.

I cannot be sure, but I think that KTM doesn't want to compete with itself. IBM did that with PCjr and its chiclet keyboard ensuring that you needed to buy a PCXT to do real work. Look how that turned out. Other manufacturers (new blood) took that market.

Steve Jobs famously said “If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will.”

 

[Number Six]

I believe we did 5 battery swaps in that race.

Forty thousand dollars worth of battery to get 2 bikes to the finish .. you guys are serious about competing !
Had a 250cc gas Freeride for a couple years & modified most everything in an effort to create a 205lb enduro bike.
Two words for those chassis ; steering damper.

 

[DirtFirst]

Forty thousand dollars worth of battery to get 2 bikes to the finish .. you guys are serious about competing !
Had a 250cc gas Freeride for a couple years & modified most everything in an effort to create a 205lb enduro bike.
Two words for those chassis ; steering damper.

We only ran one bike in the NHHA races we entered. We used 3 batteries For the race. When we took a battery out of the bike we immediately put it on charge and then reused it later in the race.
We run our steering bearings with a little drag, but I haven’t had to put a damper on our bikes.
You are right, we are serious about giving kids an option to keep racing electric bikes after they outgrow their KTM SXE5.
I personally had success racing a 198lb KTM144SX in the GNCC Series and East Coast enduros. I don’t know your particular situation, but that bike worked great for me right off the showroom floor. I’m 6’/175lbs.
Thank you for your interest!

 

[Johnny Depp]

Can you send a link to that release with the battery swap info?
If that’s true it would be a huge plus.
The KTM batteries are $4000, the Varg batteries will sell for more than that I would imagine, but some serious racers will buy them if they are easily swapped.

Sorry, I don't know exactly which one of the 50 videos it was, I think it was Swapmoto? Maybe someone else remembers. I don't think the tool was a special tool, I think it was just the standard motor mount bolts?