Why does stark varg not comply to these regs when sold for racing?

[UKLee]

fim-moto.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/2023/FIM_Electrical_Regulations_07.07.2023_final.pdf?t=1700588573
Why does stark varg not comply to these regs when sold for racing?

 

[Andreas]

I don't think the Stark even has a kill switch
or does anyone know something like that at Stark?
Can this be retrofitted?

 

[Philip]

Looks like FIM decided to write those regulations 4 months ago to fit another, more favorite e-bike brand.

 

[UKLee]

Update: Taddy Blazusiak leaves GASGAS – here’s what we know

GASGAS have issued one of their “best wishes” press releases, thanking Taddy Blazusiak for his achievements and “good luck” in the future as the enduro legend moves onto pastures new. Is a high-profile switch on the cards?

enduro21.com

As things stand here in the Uk it seems Stark vargs are allowed to be used in ACU and AMCA MX events, we used ours at an AMCA mx a few weeks ago as did 2 others, all good....until there is a problem, like one goes up in flames whilst charging between races in the paddock (pits) especially if it takes someone elses equipment with it or someone gets injured.
Then there is out on track could a big crash or another riders foot peg smash the starks battery case and cause electric shock or worse to either rider or a marshall ?

If or some might say when this happens the first thing the insurance covering the event are going to do is bring in regulations for electric mororbikes, could well be these fim regulations which even with a lot of effort from stark future to get taddys stark to meet the regs was not possible.
This then might well pass on to all event organisations and practice tracks leaving us with stark vargs that are only any use for use in back garden tracks.

Moto e has been running for a few years and also the TT zero before that so there must have been some regulations around when the stark varg was in the design stage, even our surron has a circit breaker as far as I can see the stark has nothing except the small buttons.

 

[Andreas]

That's Stark's answer to the killswitch.
So you can only drive it in the garden.
We need a kill switch for even the smallest races.
That's the basic equipment!

 

[fsfs]

That's Stark's answer to the killswitch.
So you can only drive it in the garden.
We need a kill switch for even the smallest races.
That's the basic equipment!
View attachment 10686

The power button (the red one) is effectively the kill switch. As soon as you press it the bike goes into "neutral" and won't respond to throttle - this is displayed clearly on the LED. If you hold this button for a bit longer (like a second) the bike will turn off. You will hear a "clunk" sound in the battery as TWO big relays open up and now the battery is effectively mechanically disconnected from the inverter; the LED goes dark.

By definition a kill switch stops the spark plug from sparking. So technically an electric bike cannot have a "kill" switch. However, there is a switch that stops and turns off the bike.

All we really have hear is manufacturers pressuring FIM. It is a politics game.

 

[Andreas]

Kill switch, emergency stop switch with ripcord,
What happens in an accident if the motorcycle slips in the dirt and the throttle grip turns in the dirt? The machine starts rotating uncontrollably. That's why we need to have a corresponding kill switch that stops the machine absolutely when the driver is separated from the handlebars. This is totally important.

 

[fsfs]

this is a kill switch:


what you have in your picture is a _lanyard_

You should have requested a lanyard system to stop the wheel spinning. They do not currently sell such a system but the bike can be made to work with one. If there is enough demand I suppose they will produce and sell such a product.

The bike can also detect when it has been laid down (continued lateral acceleration) and cut the throttle to stop the wheel. This can be added with a software update.

However, FIM is now playing a game. Whatever Stark implements FIM will make a new requirement hours before the next race. As long as FIM wants to play these games Stark cannot win. If I were Stark I wouldn't do anything until FIM says something like "These are the requirements and they won't change for X years".

 

[leeo45]

The FIM requirement for a lanyard type kill switch on e-bikes was set back in June 2023. I would hope that the bike they had for Taddy in France had such a device; although it is not visible in the pictures. Obviously, waivers and all sorts of exceptions can be made when parties have enough influence.

I have seen an ALTA do the uncontrolled spin after a fall described by @Andreas due to dirt in the throttle grip. Getting to the handlebar kill switch was exciting, to say the least.

FIM Regulations - Section 2.10: All motorcycles must have an operational cut-out switch fitted to operate when the rider leaves the motorcycle. This cut-out system must stop the motor. This cut-out switch (ie. lanyard) must be attached from the motorcycle to the rider arm wrist.

This motor cut-out switch must be operated by a lanyard with adequate length (max. length - 1m) and thickness. Once the rider steps off the motorcycle, the lanyard must disconnect from the cut-off switch and the motor. The lanyard must be fastened to the cut-out switch firmly in a way that it cannot be disconnected inadvertently but only when the rider leaves the motorcycle.

The cut-out switch cannot be taped, glued wired or fitted solidly in place.

 

[fsfs]

The FIM requirement for a lanyard type kill switch on e-bikes was set back in June 2023. I would hope that the bike they had for Taddy in France had such a device; although it is not visible in the pictures. Obviously, waivers and all sorts of exceptions can be made when parties have enough influence.

I have seen an ALTA do the uncontrolled spin after a fall described by @Andreas due to dirt in the throttle grip. Getting to the handlebar kill switch was exciting, to say the least.

Vargs started production before that date. I wasn't there so I can't say for sure if Taddy's bike had a lanyard or not. However, during the media event when the press came to Barcelona the Vargs all had lanyards. It is not difficult to add a lanyard and can be done in half an hour (for Stark personnel). I highly doubt that he didn't ride because lack of a lanyard -- like I said 30 minute job for them.

 

[Redbull]

Here is a small news bit post superenduro. Translated link: Mondiale SuperEnduro: perché la Stark Varg non c’era - Dueruote

 

[Philip]

Here is a small news bit post superenduro. Translated link: Mondiale SuperEnduro: perché la Stark Varg non c’era - Dueruote

The main reason, to the FIM, was that the motorbike was not registered. But for a race in a sports hall and not on streets open to traffic, the issue could have easily been resolved. We's then talked about reasons safetylinked to the impossibility of any managing any fire problems of the motorcycle's batteries. Someone even spread the word that a major competitor had lobbied for Stark Varg's exclusion.

Apre, Taddy Blazusiak was to allowed to run a few laps of the track with permission from the World Cup organizer, ABC Communication, after the team packed up and headed home.

 

[UKLee]

I think for these events the bike should be an enduro based bike not an mx bike hence why they all have lights fitted, for the bike to be registered strictly speaking it has to meet lots of safety and emissions regulations. Clearly ktvanagas used this as a reason to get the stark excluded biggest joke is if you got one of there 2 stroke enduro bikes with all the homoligated parts fitted for emissions it would hardly even run you have to remove them (actully the shop does) to make the bike useable, clearly not an issue for the stark but it is another box ticking exercise.

This said a small red button like on the stark is just not going to cut it for any kind of racing, maybe a big red rubber button 100mm (4 inches) in diameter with the electric hazard sticker next to it one on the front mudguard and one on the rear that completly shuts down the electrical system, marshalls equipped with thick rubber gloves and a long stick to activate it from a safe distance and training given. Also the bike needs warning lights like on the moto E bikes to say if it is safe to touch or not.

Amazed Stark future did not get this all cleared up before putting the bike on the market, what ever gets agreed the bikes need a recall and updated to the regs at no cost to the owner because this will become a problem.

 

[Michael Anders]

If you happen to search Stark official there was a youtube video highlighting the lanyard and the battery disconnect that the Stark engineers implemented to meet the rules. A lanyard style emergency stop was fitted an a shunt to physically disconnect the battery in the case if an emergency.
Fire management was a valid concern and a plunge pool/ dunk tank filled with brine could have been made available.
Fire risk is still high with ICE bikes and refuelling of bikes with hot exhausts. Fire extinguisher rules apply whilst refuelling.
FIM don't want E at ICE events because of pressure from Honda and KTM group pure and simple.
FIM are pandering just like AMA.
It is pathetic.

check 1:22 where sebastian and the engineers address the lanyard and estop

 

[Andreas]

Can you please share the video link here.
Thank you.

 

[Michael Anders]

Can you please share the video link here.
Thank you.

Check the vide at the 1:22 on where Sebastin is discussing meeting the FIM regulations on Estop and a lanyard

 

[Andreas]

very good, thanks