New Stark EX Enduro announced, List of issues/unkept promises with current/original Stark Varg

[UKLee]

There are things promised in that video that were promised for the current bike 3 years ago

but we still do not have them.

We still have problems with.....
Phone falling out
Side stand
Power button sticking in
Rust in frame tapers
Water getting in electrics, stark claim to have made a better loom for the EX enduro.
So Stark what about using the same kind of loom to make our bikes what we were promised, remember the video saying you can ride it under water! Not that any of us are looking to do that but waterproof would be good to avoid a lot of the issues we are having. We bought the first bikes and did the testing you should have done, I have spent weeks helping diagnose problems trying things video calls sending e mails changing parts etc etc and what do you offer for my time...... a Bloody body kit do the right thing and make our bikes right, I certainly will not be buying another stark if you do not.

 

[fedesm297]

Sorry man but you're asking for way too much. Try asking any other brand to give you the same support Stark is giving, they'll laugh in your face. Whatever problem the bike has was resolved under warranty, i understand it takes time but, i repeat, no other manufacturer will do it. Every bike has some problems and it's not perfect, they're addressing the bigger problems seriously and making revised parts, other maybe not (like the kickstand bracket -it's still an mx bike....- or the sticky buttons - they just need a cleaning and a bit of grease once in a while)
As for the promised features, they'll come (not for free)

 

[UKLee]

Sorry man but you're asking for way too much. Try asking any other brand to give you the same support Stark is giving, they'll laugh in your face. Whatever problem the bike has was resolved under warranty, i understand it takes time but, i repeat, no other manufacturer will do it. Every bike has some problems and it's not perfect, they're addressing the bigger problems seriously and making revised parts, other maybe not (like the kickstand bracket -it's still an mx bike....- or the sticky buttons - they just need a cleaning and a bit of grease once in a while)
As for the promised features, they'll come (not for free)

Ok when your warranty is up then you need a drivetrain AT £3200 or a battery at £2700 that has failed or any of the other expensive parts you will be ok with that?

The first bikes to go out only have about 6 months warranty left but all these issues people are having are not reducing, the replacment parts we are getting under warranty are no better than the ones that broke then we had to spend time diagnosing the problem and fitting the new parts, every chance you have had a wasted day at a track, paid your entry fuel to get there. They came up with a gen 2 drivetrain but just look on this forum lots of people are still having problems with them, people just got there new bikes and one problem after another.
Yes totally agree a new product will have issues but it is taking way to long to put things right, if they can not put it right they should have stopped production until they fixed the issues.
Feels like a kick in the teeth our bikes are far from right then they announce this enduro version supposedly solving all the issues we are having and promising the stuff we were promised and have yet to get and if there is an extra charge they should have said that at the time!

At the risk of repeting myself sick of one thing after another with this stark varg, just never know if it wont charge, phone will not connect so no idea how much charge it has or what mode it is in and will not see any warnings, go to ride it and it decides it does not want to play. Given up taking it to events we take another reliable ice bike instead.

This transmission is getting water in it even though I plug the end of the breather pipe every time I wash it, stark said they were coming up with a one way valve ages ago what have we had !!!NOTHING! watching my kids on it I notice the drivetrain is getting noisy, there was another stark on track and there was a noticable differance, inform stark send videos of it running in the garage on a stand and photos of behind the front sprocket. There is a bit of dust on the green seal and the spacer and the reply comes back the seal and spacer need replacing as they look dirty and maybe damaged, for gods sake the transmission is only 6 months old there is nothing at all wrong with the seal or spacer but they think I should buy the parts and replace them because it is a ware item. I have 7 year old yamahas that have not had that spacer or seal replaced just fobbing me off now if this drive train locks up and causes an injury stark will have a problem on there hands.

 

[happyinmotion]

Counterpoint: I've bashed the shit out of this bike for 125 hours so far. I ride hard enduro and the bike has spent plenty of time underwater, upside down, and stuck in trees. It's been fine.

The question is not "is the Stark perfect?". It's "is the Stark more reliable than a petrol bike?"

I've towed two of my mates' petrol bikes back to the vans coz my Stark was working and their bikes died.

Sorry that you're having a bad time, but let's not claim there's a systemic issue here.

 

[UKLee]

Counterpoint: I've bashed the shit out of this bike for 125 hours so far. I ride hard enduro and the bike has spent plenty of time underwater, upside down, and stuck in trees. It's been fine.

The question is not "is the Stark perfect?". It's "is the Stark more reliable than a petrol bike?"

I've towed two of my mates' petrol bikes back to the vans coz my Stark was working and their bikes died.

Sorry that you're having a bad time, but let's not claim there's a systemic issue here.

"is the Stark more reliable than a petrol bike?" From our experiance definitely not, whilst on the subject we were sold same range as a ice bike with a full tank, not even close easily get 3 even 4 sessions on an ice bike stark from a full charge was down to 45% after one session, same rider same track same pace.

"Sorry that you're having a bad time, but let's not claim there's a systemic issue here." Read about the issues on here and plenty of other forums then you decide if it is a systematic issue, combined with my own experiance It certainly looks like one from here.

 

[Theo]

Ok when your warranty is up then you need a drivetrain AT £3200 or a battery at £2700 that has failed or any of the other expensive parts you will be ok with that?

Maybe they are replacing power units and batteries now because they don't want people to question the validity of the warranty, but in the future we may be able to send them a power unit so that they just replace a sensor or whatever was wrong with it. Besides, there already is a replacement kit for the countershaft, part number SMX1-PT-SPCS-KT; I don't know what it includes but I guess the bearings and seals.

The question is not "is the Stark perfect?". It's "is the Stark more reliable than a petrol bike?"

It depends on what you mean with "reliable". Gas bikes may break down not very often but they need a ridicolous amount of preventive maintenance which will either be extremely time consuming and pretty expensive, if you DIY, or little time consuming but very expensive if you have the sorrow of dealing with mechanics; sorry to say that but just like most of the companies just want to exploit the costumer, a mechanic will do the same or at least that's according to my experience and to the typical experience of other people I know.
And despite what people say, 2 strokes need a ton of maintenance, too. It's not really enjoyable to come back home tired and periodically have to do things like to repack a silencer, decarbonize an expansion chamber or replace a piston, which includes: removing fuel tank-removing subframe-removing expansion chamber-disconnecting power valve- draining coolant-disconnecting radiators hoses-removing the head and cylinder-scraping the debris of the base gasket paying attention not to scratch the aluminum mating surface and not to drop anything into the crankcases-removing the circlips-putting everythink back together still double checking things, still making sure nothing has ended up into the crankcase and realistically disassembling, cleaning and reassembling that exhaust valve since you have that cylinder in your hands and if the last time you cleaned it was one piston change ago I'm afraid it'll look totally black!!!

 

[joer]

Sorry to hear that your bike has been such a disappointment.

I cannot claim that my experience is universal, but I’ve got 100+ hours and one season riding MX, including plenty of guest riders. I’m an early ish VIN: 3000’s.

There’s been a few hiccups like the inner tubes, but nothing serious. Over all, the bike has had less down time than my KTM 4 stoke. WAY less time spent on maintenance too. I think there was only one day it let me down.

Having the KTM as a backup was handy that one day. But the KTM has been lent out to buddies way more when their gas bikes wouldn’t start. Or when the parts for their bikes were back ordered. I’m not even trying to keep it as a spare. I just haven’t been able to sell it.

The biggest issue was the battery replacement. It would refuse to turn on if I charged past 95%. Easy enough to work around. The battery cells were fine. It was the battery management system. I suspect out of warranty, they’ll either offer remanufactured units or perhaps even parts for inside the battery assembly. (Though that requires some expertise to do safely.)

Regardless, I’m so far very satisfied. I’m trying to get rid of my KTM, in which case the Varg will be the only bike in my garage. I plan on riding this bike for a few years yet. I suspect my body will give out before the bike does.

 

[UKLee]

Maybe they are replacing power units and batteries now because they don't want people to question the validity of the warranty, but in the future we may be able to send them a power unit so that they just replace a sensor or whatever was wrong with it. Besides, there already is a replacement kit for the countershaft, part number SMX1-PT-SPCS-KT; I don't know what it includes but I guess the bearings and seals.


It depends on what you mean with "reliable". Gas bikes may break down not very often but they need a ridicolous amount of preventive maintenance which will either be extremely time consuming and pretty expensive, if you DIY, or little time consuming but very expensive if you have the sorrow of dealing with mechanics; sorry to say that but just like most of the companies just want to exploit the costumer, a mechanic will do the same or at least that's according to my experience and to the typical experience of other people I know.
And despite what people say, 2 strokes need a ton of maintenance, too. It's not really enjoyable to come back home tired and periodically have to do things like to repack a silencer, decarbonize an expansion chamber or replace a piston, which includes: removing fuel tank-removing subframe-removing expansion chamber-disconnecting power valve- draining coolant-disconnecting radiators hoses-removing the head and cylinder-scraping the debris of the base gasket paying attention not to scratch the aluminum mating surface and not to drop anything into the crankcases-removing the circlips-putting everythink back together still double checking things, still making sure nothing has ended up into the crankcase and realistically disassembling, cleaning and reassembling that exhaust valve since you have that cylinder in your hands and if the last time you cleaned it was one piston change ago I'm afraid it'll look totally black!!!

From what the ex alta experts on here say the noise and locking up of the drive train is the actual motor not the reduction gears.

Ha Ha, at some enduro practice days what we do is maintance on the ice bikes like oil changes which is ideal whilst the engine is warm, plenty of time do do that whilst waiting for the stark to charge, even after investing in generators that will charge as fast as the stark charging system will allow an hours charging will only allow about 20 to 30 minutes riding. Charging the stark fully is plenty of time to change the piston in a 2 stroke.
Each issue with the stark is often a wasted day because you got to the track and it did not want to play, no meaningfull reply from stark at weekends great thought must have gone in to that! send e mails a few days later get a reply maybe have to take videos/photos and send another few days get another reply, IF all goes well they send parts out, another few days then fit parts and hopefully but far from always problem is solved.....until the next one.
I am far from the worlds best mechanic but I could have done 3 or 4 four stroke top end rebuilds in that time, that needs doing for us about every 2 years.

TBH I fell for all this low maintance stark against ICE bike sales talk but in reality it has been far from the case, if we have any problems it is usually to do with the stark, I have started leaving it at home and taking 3 or 4 ice bikes with us for me and the kids for a hassle free enjoy the riding day. We can also ride when we want not when the battery % says we can, believe me this is a much bigger issue that we ever thought it would be, should have been hot swap batteries.

 

[UKLee]

Sorry to hear that your bike has been such a disappointment.

I cannot claim that my experience is universal, but I’ve got 100+ hours and one season riding MX, including plenty of guest riders. I’m an early ish VIN: 3000’s.

There’s been a few hiccups like the inner tubes, but nothing serious. Over all, the bike has had less down time than my KTM 4 stoke. WAY less time spent on maintenance too. I think there was only one day it let me down.

Having the KTM as a backup was handy that one day. But the KTM has been lent out to buddies way more when their gas bikes wouldn’t start. Or when the parts for their bikes were back ordered. I’m not even trying to keep it as a spare. I just haven’t been able to sell it.

The biggest issue was the battery replacement. It would refuse to turn on if I charged past 95%. Easy enough to work around. The battery cells were fine. It was the battery management system. I suspect out of warranty, they’ll either offer remanufactured units or perhaps even parts for inside the battery assembly. (Though that requires some expertise to do safely.)

Regardless, I’m so far very satisfied. I’m trying to get rid of my KTM, in which case the Varg will be the only bike in my garage. I plan on riding this bike for a few years yet. I suspect my body will give out before the bike does.

Sorry but compairing any bike against a ktm the other bike will look good, I have refused to buy a ktm ice bike for the last 10 years, I could see the way it was going, Justified I think!
We have been running mainly Yamahas 2 stroke and 4 with hardly a problem, not brand loyal at all I just choose what ever bike looks well engineered not what brands marketing departments try to tell us.



On the subject of these new enduro bikes this pay in full up front and get it fast whilst just paying a deposit you will get pushed back.... is that good customer service? Stinks of desperation to get the money in to me.
Has anyone had a p/x valuation for there current stark varg against a new enduro stark?

 

[fedesm297]

I worked as a mechanic for 6 years now, and i put my hands on dirtbikes and supermotos only. I've seen plenty on engines explode in 5 hours of usage, electrical problems from ECUs to fuel pumps to sensors, from every damn manufacturer. There's always the bad bike that goes out of the manufacturing line, and i can understand your frustration. But telling Starks are unreliable and the support is lacking, is wrong. There are 10000and over Vargs out there and the only people you'll hear about are the ones with issues. My Varg is in the first 1000 bikes made, still first gen everything, i had no big problem whatsoever in the 14 month of ownership. ICE dirtbikes doesn't even have a decent warranty, and when you manage to use it, it's always a terrible experience (i speak from experience)

 

[UKLee]

I worked as a mechanic for 6 years now, and i put my hands on dirtbikes and supermotos only. I've seen plenty on engines explode in 5 hours of usage, electrical problems from ECUs to fuel pumps to sensors, from every damn manufacturer. There's always the bad bike that goes out of the manufacturing line, and i can understand your frustration. But telling Starks are unreliable and the support is lacking, is wrong. There are 10000and over Vargs out there and the only people you'll hear about are the ones with issues. My Varg is in the first 1000 bikes made, still first gen everything, i had no big problem whatsoever in the 14 month of ownership. ICE dirtbikes doesn't even have a decent warranty, and when you manage to use it, it's always a terrible experience (i speak from experience)

6 years, arn't you the expert then, been fixing my own bikes for over 45 years. It is not just mine open your eyes, people on here having problems with new bikes built over a year after mine was, issues known from very early still not sorted in fact seen no effort at all. Ill say it again I posted on here for people who got there bikes before I did to post any issues so that when mine became available I had some feedback then I have done the same. Just do not see what is wrong with that, if the manufactures do not like it don't sell us bikes that don't work, Asked them to refund me for it and have it back but they refuse, there call but I will tell it as it is.

 

[fedesm297]

6 years, arn't you the expert then, been fixing my own bikes for over 45 years. It is not just mine open your eyes, people on here having problems with new bikes built over a year after mine was, issues known from very early still not sorted in fact seen no effort at all. Ill say it again I posted on here for people who got there bikes before I did to post any issues so that when mine became available I had some feedback then I have done the same. Just do not see what is wrong with that, if the manufactures do not like it don't sell us bikes that don't work, Asked them to refund me for it and have it back but they refuse, there call but I will tell it as it is.

Your own bikes means pretty much anything. Man, i understand why you're angry, but you're the one how should oper your eyes. People with good experiences won't write about them in a forum, you'll just see people (like you) angry and complaining about their bike not working. Every bike is getting fixed FOR FREE FOR 2 YEARS(you probably don't understand the extent of this, never a manufacturer of a dirt bike has givens such service). You can buy a Yamaha (i read you like them), you drop a valve after 10 hours, you're fucked.
A client took in the workshop i work a 2 month old yzf 450 with a snapped conrod. 3500€ of damages (basically a completely fucked motor), yamaha didn't even respond. Every manufacturer has it's own bad apples, and a 6 years old company is managing them better then big ass companies as Honda or Yamaha
I'm not here to convince that Stark is better than anyone, i don't give a damn because i paid, like you, full price for the bike and i waited for 2 damn years to have it (i was furious at the time), so that's on you. But you're just wrong about your way of thought.
I hope you can still enjoy riding, don't care whatever bike it is, doesn't matter

 

[UKLee]

Your own bikes means pretty much anything. Man, i understand why you're angry, but you're the one how should oper your eyes. People with good experiences won't write about them in a forum, you'll just see people (like you) angry and complaining about their bike not working. Every bike is getting fixed FOR FREE FOR 2 YEARS(you probably don't understand the extent of this, never a manufacturer of a dirt bike has givens such service). You can buy a Yamaha (i read you like them), you drop a valve after 10 hours, you're fucked.
A client took in the workshop i work a 2 month old yzf 450 with a snapped conrod. 3500€ of damages (basically a completely fucked motor), yamaha didn't even respond. Every manufacturer has it's own bad apples, and a 6 years old company is managing them better then big ass companies as Honda or Yamaha
I'm not here to convince that Stark is better than anyone, i don't give a damn because i paid, like you, full price for the bike and i waited for 2 damn years to have it (i was furious at the time), so that's on you. But you're just wrong about your way of thought.
I hope you can still enjoy riding, don't care whatever bike it is, doesn't matter

"Every bike is getting fixed FOR FREE FOR 2 YEARS"
FREE rearlly, I bet I am up to 4 weeks worth of time I have put in to fixing this now how is that free? You go in to work next week and your boss turns round and tells you you have to do 4 weeks of work for nothing you ok with that?

"(you probably don't understand the extent of this, never a manufacturer of a dirt bike has givens such service)" So a new business that has never built anything before claiming to be building a bike better than anything in production who has an international press day that the riders can only do a few laps because the bikes are breaking down and has others standing around waiting for the bikes to be fixed. I don't think many would have bought the bikes if they did not have a decent warranty would they?

"But you're just wrong about your way of thought." Your opinion but I don't think I am, If I did a job that was not to a good standard I would expect word to get around, it is an insentive to do a good job not that I need one.

 

[fedesm297]

"Every bike is getting fixed FOR FREE FOR 2 YEARS"
FREE rearlly, I bet I am up to 4 weeks worth of time I have put in to fixing this now how is that free? You go in to work next week and your boss turns round and tells you you have to do 4 weeks of work for nothing you ok with that?

"(you probably don't understand the extent of this, never a manufacturer of a dirt bike has givens such service)" So a new business that has never built anything before claiming to be building a bike better than anything in production who has an international press day that the riders can only do a few laps because the bikes are breaking down and has others standing around waiting for the bikes to be fixed. I don't think many would have bought the bikes if they did not have a decent warranty would they?

"But you're just wrong about your way of thought." Your opinion but I don't think I am, If I did a job that was not to a good standard I would expect word to get around, it is an insentive to do a good job not that I need one.

Man, i'll not answer you anymore. You stated you fixed your bikes for 45 years, yet you complaining about fixing the Varg. If you don't want to fix it, just take it to a dealer and you let them work on it via warranty.
Not worth my time.
Have a good one.
Ps: if you don't want to keep the bike, just sell it, there's people willing to spend some time on it to fix the bike
Pps: i work on my bike for free, even if it's warranty work (yes, i've done it 3 times with my varg, even changing the frame)

 

[UKLee]

Don't reply not a problem. Dealers do not want to do warranty work as the manufactures/importers will not pay them a good rate so warranty jobs just sit there and they fob you off, suits the manufacturer as it is soaking up the warranty period.

Selling it is not an option loads for sale not selling have to almost give it away.

 

[happyinmotion]

Ok, can I have yours for free?

Seeing as you don't want it any more.

 

[mike61]

Good Morning from Germany!
Here you can see a very patient Varg user.
Most of this Varg is already new;-))

 

[UKLee]

Don't understand a word of german Pointed to lot of problems in the first 5 minutes anyone translate?

 

[mike61]

Okay, some translations!

He already changed:
- battery
- rear frame
- footpegs
- plastics
- seat
- drivetrain
in warraty as he said

for his own
- water pump (air inside)
- fork clamp (clicking noise)
- rear shock (better, softer)
- chain (too short)
- rear wheel spacers (compressing)
- tubes (!!)
- handlebar (his attitude)
- hand protectors and levers (!!)

I talked about how difficult it was to loose the alloi side frames.
Sticking corroded in the steel frame.
And how tricky it was to insert the new motor

 

[UKLee]

Okay, some translations!

He already changed:
- battery
- rear frame
- footpegs
- plastics
- seat
- drivetrain
in warraty as he said

for his own
- water pump (air inside)
- fork clamp (clicking noise)
- rear shock (better, softer)
- chain (too short)
- rear wheel spacers (compressing)
- tubes (!!)
- handlebar (his attitude)
- hand protectors and levers (!!)

I talked about how difficult it was to loose the alloi side frames.
Sticking corroded in the steel frame.
And how tricky it was to insert the new motor

Thanks for that, Like mine quite a list.
Yes the rust in the frame is a concern, now I know the frame side plates are on a taper I can get them off quite quick with a lump of steel and a hammer.

Were the water pump and fork clamp not covered under warranty?
Chain too short or stark designers trying to run before they can walk designing fancy chain adjusters but schoolboy error of not enough clearance for the tyre with the wheel at the front of the slots. Putting it right on the enduro along with lots or other claims.