2025 Stark Varg rumors, changes, etc.

[Beagle]

This is a race team, not so guy in a garage. There's a pretty big reason why manufacturers like Alta and Stark went with fixed batteries instead of swappable types. Namely for durability reasons, but liability as well. You're not out jumping triples on a Surron (or at least not for very many attempts before the bike gets destroyed).

I get the appeal of swapping batteries, but it's incredibly hard on the connectors that can pass this much power. Now of course, if I'm wrong then I'm happy to be updated on it. But it's a large part of the decision process from what I've learned so far about EVs.

Well, Flux is developing a 85 hp 7.9 kWh dirt bike with swappable batteries and batteries that can be charged independently of the bike (otherwise swappable would be useless) so we may have real world data about that in a couple of years

 

[Dirt-E]

Well, Flux is developing a 85 hp 7.9 kWh dirt bike with swappable batteries . . . so we may have real world data about that in a couple of years

True. I'm not against swappable. But it does introduce the possibility of errors. There are always tradeoffs. But you also never know if some new tech might come out and flip everything on its head.

 

[Maribo]

So we know stark is coming out with an enduro model changes to be forth coming. Stark doesn’t like to call their Varg by year model just Varg. Even tho they have slightly changed it in the last couple of years by updates to software or Gen 2 physical hardware. That leads me to any rumors or facts about changes to the mx version in 2025? Also heard that Stark might also come out with a little smaller Dust Moto/Surron ultra bee size. maybe in a year or twol

I don’t race MX anymore, due to bones no longer being rubber. Would love a good quality trail bike, though. The Stark enduro is still a bit heavy to pick up or get stuck in the mud. And 60 or 80 hp is not necessary.

 

[AL_V]

I don’t race MX anymore, due to bones no longer being rubber. Would love a good quality trail bike, though. The Stark enduro is still a bit heavy to pick up or get stuck in the mud. And 60 or 80 hp is not necessary.

I agree, I'm also old, the bike is heavy to pick up, and 60hp (much less 80) is not necessary.
However, the less HP you actually use, the more range you have, and unfortunately, you can't make the bike lighter without sacrificing range.
I have weighed both my Varg, and my 300 with a full tank of gas. The real world difference is only about 17 lbs, and I rarely have to pick up the Varg vs the 300.
(No one should believe the manufacturer's claimed weight, especially with add ons, and oil and gas.)

 

[Maribo]

I agree, I'm also old, the bike is heavy to pick up, and 60hp (much less 80) is not necessary.
However, the less HP you actually use, the more range you have, and unfortunately, you can't make the bike lighter without sacrificing range.
I have weighed both my Varg, and my 300 with a full tank of gas. The real world difference is only about 17 lbs, and I rarely have to pick up the Varg vs the 300.
(No one should believe the manufacturer's claimed weight, especially with add ons, and oil and gas.)

The Arctic Leopard is a possibility, lighter, but some folks have doubts about the quality. I don’t want something that breaks down, and you can’t get support for.

 

[Aleksandar13]

I agree, I'm also old, the bike is heavy to pick up, and 60hp (much less 80) is not necessary.
However, the less HP you actually use, the more range you have, and unfortunately, you can't make the bike lighter without sacrificing range.
I have weighed both my Varg, and my 300 with a full tank of gas. The real world difference is only about 17 lbs, and I rarely have to pick up the Varg vs the 300.
(No one should believe the manufacturer's claimed weight, especially with add ons, and oil and gas.)

17 lbs is really nothing in the scheme of things.. Thanks for sharing this. I wonder if a 450 is heavier and closer to the varg weight

 

[wfopete]

Especially where most of that 17lbs is placed (fuel, battery).

 

[Beagle]

17 lbs is really nothing in the scheme of things.. Thanks for sharing this. I wonder if a 450 is heavier and closer to the varg weight

10-20 lbs compared to 450s wet weight

Dirt Bike Weight Comparison - with Examples

How much does a dirt bike weigh, ready to ride? Comparing modern enduro bikes weight. Each dirt bike is weighed with a full tank of fuel, full fluids, and with no aftermarket parts

dirtbikechannel.com

 

[mike61]

No rear disc brake > no braking with a broken chain! Scary!

Braking by regen > more heat in the motor > bigger cooling system needed!

 

[Aleksandar13]

10-20 lbs compared to 450s wet weight

Dirt Bike Weight Comparison - with Examples

How much does a dirt bike weigh, ready to ride? Comparing modern enduro bikes weight. Each dirt bike is weighed with a full tank of fuel, full fluids, and with no aftermarket parts

dirtbikechannel.com

Thanks for that, very interesting to see the weight is not that far apart and due to very good weight distribution the stark feels less heavy.

 

[UKLee]

No rear disc brake > no braking with a broken chain! Scary!

Braking by regen > more heat in the motor > bigger cooling system needed!

The ATK I think it was called used a rotax 4 stroke engine had the rear disc brake mounted on the front sprocket, was not allowed in some parts of the world.

 

[wfopete]

Learn to use the front brake. That's where the braking power is at anyway.

 

[mike61]

Oh, I learned to use the frontbrake. I lost my rear brake twice.
These moments were very impressive, fortunately not impactive;-)
Once a stone was between lever and footpeg. I noticed it downhill!
Second a branche blocked the lever for a while and the brake fluid was cooking.
I noticed it in front of a 90 degree curve.

 

[Chadx]

Sure, the chain tension affects the rear suspension, as does a rear brake that are fixed to the swing-arm - call it anti-rise, brake jacking, or stiffening. That's why floating rear brakes have been tried, many times, but they haven't caught on. Rear ends work well enough under braking.

As with all these things, it's a trade-off - better rear suspension because of less unsprung weight versus worse rear suspension because of chain tension.

I suspect that lower unsprung weight will win out, because that gets you better grip all of the time, whether you're braking or not. I'm basing this on my experience running a Zerode MTB - that has a Pinion gearbox at the bottom bracket with just one cog at the back instead of 12 cogs and a derailleur. That saves half a kilo and the back end grip is so much improved.

Regarding eDirtbike regen, I only trail ride (no MX) and regen works for the majority of my slowing needs. It does require a slightly different style and the faster I ride, the more I rely on mechanical rear brake, but just relaxed trail riding, 80% regen does nearly all my rear braking.

Having to have each power setting tied to a single regen percentage, though, is not idea. A lever to manipulate the amount of regen on the spot would be great for trail riding in my opinion. If the battery is of high enough voltage, regen is greatly reduced, though. Plus, it would be hard to get the same feel as a disc brake.

Arctic Leopard (I forget which model) has, or had, a regen braking lever, but still had mechanical brake. I heard a complaint that there wasn't enough resistance on the lever so it was hard to modulate like a mechanical brake. I would think that a regen lever could be designed to have the same, or at least similar, pull resistance as the mechanical front brake. I would be definitely be interested in a regen braking lever.

As for unsprung weight by removing mechanical rear brake, I think I'd still want mechanical rear brake on my eDirtbike, but I also love the suspension feel, and reduction of rear unsprung weight (no rear derailleur), on my Zerode MTB (Katipo Enduro with 9 speed Pinion gearbox)!

 

[Chadx]

Well, Flux is developing a 85 hp 7.9 kWh dirt bike with swappable batteries and batteries that can be charged independently of the bike (otherwise swappable would be useless) so we may have real world data about that in a couple of years

Another small perk of a swappable battery would be for those that experience extreme climate temps that are outside of the recommended storage temps (cold and hot).
I can't move the entire bike to a temperate area, but I could move only the battery to a place for the winter (indoors, basement, inside small climate controlled are where the entire bike won't fit, etc.) For me, that is winter (-40F/-40C) in uninsulated shop. Same shop is over 100F in summer time during the day (but thankfully cools off quickly at night). For those in 110F ambient temps, a storage shed/garage could be extremely hot and lithium batteries hate extreme heat even more than extreme cold. In hot climates, many don't ride the hottest months so bike is stored. A removable battery could get pulled and stored away from that heat.

In the end, maybe the extremes of storing temps aren't that big of a deal, but it was easy to pull the battery, I'd do it just to be nicer to it. That being said, I'm not willing to add 10+lbs of weight, a lot of bulk, or have less reliable connections for that since swapping batteries mid ride isn't an option for the trails I ride like it would be for MX or race loop riders. The majority of my rides are mountain trail rides that are out-and-back or long loops . There are only a few weeks per year that I ride OHV area, where I could swing by the truck/trailer to swap battery, and that is for the short period where that area is rideable but the mountain trails are still not open/snowcovered. And in that case, I can swing by the truck for lunch and charge for 30 minutes for a little SOC bump, so don't really need to swap battery.

 

[Chaconne]

10-20 lbs compared to 450s wet weight

Dirt Bike Weight Comparison - with Examples

How much does a dirt bike weigh, ready to ride? Comparing modern enduro bikes weight. Each dirt bike is weighed with a full tank of fuel, full fluids, and with no aftermarket parts

dirtbikechannel.com

I think a Yam WR450F and Varg EX are probably about the same weight. Maybe the newest WR is 10lb less but I know the 2020 I rode a few weeks ago was around 265 with a tank of gas.

 

[Chaconne]

Another small perk of a swappable battery would be for those that experience extreme climate temps that are outside of the recommended storage temps (cold and hot).
I can't move the entire bike to a temperate area, but I could move only the battery to a place for the winter (indoors, basement, inside small climate controlled are where the entire bike won't fit, etc.) For me, that is winter (-40F/-40C) in uninsulated shop. Same shop is over 100F in summer time during the day (but thankfully cools off quickly at night). For those in 110F ambient temps, a storage shed/garage could be extremely hot and lithium batteries hate extreme heat even more than extreme cold. In hot climates, many don't ride the hottest months so bike is stored. A removable battery could get pulled and stored away from that heat.

In the end, maybe the extremes of storing temps aren't that big of a deal, but it was easy to pull the battery, I'd do it just to be nicer to it. That being said, I'm not willing to add 10+lbs of weight, a lot of bulk, or have less reliable connections for that since swapping batteries mid ride isn't an option for the trails I ride like it would be for MX or race loop riders. The majority of my rides are mountain trail rides that are out-and-back or long loops . There are only a few weeks per year that I ride OHV area, where I could swing by the truck/trailer to swap battery, and that is for the short period where that area is rideable but the mountain trails are still not open/snowcovered. And in that case, I can swing by the truck for lunch and charge for 30 minutes for a little SOC bump, so don't really need to swap battery.

Ya I am a little disappointed with the battery tech in this way. I live in a condo (due to divorce) and it is difficult for me to keep my garage(s) above 32F during the winter. Fortunately I can warm it a bit with wall heaters but that has limits and I just got a that last battery warmer like you have. Did you try it out yet?

 

[Chadx]

Ya I am a little disappointed with the battery tech in this way. I live in a condo (due to divorce) and it is difficult for me to keep my garage(s) above 32F during the winter. Fortunately I can warm it a bit with wall heaters but that has limits and I just got a that last battery warmer like you have. Did you try it out yet?

Had the battery heater on and plugged in for the last month. Couple cold snaps into the teens (F) but otherwise it's been unseasonably warm with highs above freezing. Way too warm for this time of year. Trying to be patient for the mountain snow to be deep enough for snowbiking/snowmobilng...

 

[mbw479]

I expect they will announce the mx models will start being delivered with the bigger battery soon.

 

[Bpspecs]

Let’s hope so. sold my gen1. I’m just about ready to pull the trigger on a 2025 Honda crf250r. Dust,flux etc not coming out till late next year. I figure this bike I’ll trade in for varg or like mx electric when they do get better.