240V Inverter in a Van or Truck

[MVetter]

Yeah that sounds like a lot of fun. Happy memories. The sheer power available would be drastically different than the Yamaha XT225 I grew up riding those passes on.

 

[Speedkills]

I'm sure we'd be more aggressively pursuing this if we were Alta owners and our lives revolved around dirt bikes. That's how digiNow started anyway, because Brandon couldn't recharge his race bike fast enough between heats and there wasn't a good charging solution. So he made his own. Then other people wanted it, too.

@Speedkills I wanted to reach out to people at Alta and work with them if there's a product to be made here. I'm down in Monterey Bay but would definitely make a trip up north for a meeting. I can do that on a Zero with fast charging. *cough* (was I too obvious?)

Ouch, no need to rub it in

Sorry to say I have no affiliation with Alta, just want to be able to charge from charge points so I can do longer rides.

 

[snydes]

I believe the Alta guys are probably swamped right now and have to pick their battles so to speak. It would really nice if something would materialize though.

 

[Philip]

@Philip How's your progress? How does the aims inverter charger work at split-phase 240 with a r-charger?
My current design/recipe uses tesla model s 5.3kwh modules (starting w/ 1) and victron multiplus 24/3000 ... starting /w 1, single phase, and plan is going to 2 for 240 split-phase for rapid charging, and maybe support ~6kw charging in the future. The 2 inverter chargers do complicate a bit, but I like the redundancy. Researched the inverter chargers and victron has the most flexibility/programability/li-ion support, docs and 5yr warranty. Anyone here using a victron multiplus?

I am still working on my van. Bought almost everything (including a shower and bed while at it; shopping on Amazon is addictive). Now just need to bolt it on, punch a few holes in the van to route the wires, install a 240V shore power connector, etc.

The AIMS inverter is in already, I have been using it without batteries, just connected to the van's alternator and battery for now. I've only used it for 115VAC so far, but it does produce 230V as well, I tested.

The fast charger is almost here, supposedly in the mail to my dealer. I hope to pick it up in about a week.

Your Tesla based setup should be crazy capable. I am curious to know how you are going to charge these 22V Tesla batteries. Will you be able to charge from 240V, 120V, or 12V alternator?

 

[schwankl]

Will be using 120v shore and generator power: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...inverter-charger_2kVA-and-3kVA-120V-US-EN.pdf . ...the multiplus can be set to charge to a specific voltage with 0.01v accuracy. Will probably keep it safe and only charge them up to 25.0v.

There will be another level of safety/monitoring relay or switch to circuit break if it goes above 25.1v or below 19.9v. There are a few folks reusing the batteries and documented their projects - Took the basics from this guy:

 

[Philip]

Will be using 120v shore and generator power: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...inverter-charger_2kVA-and-3kVA-120V-US-EN.pdf . .

From this manual:
"Virtually unlimited power thanks to parallel operation. Up to six Multis can operate in parallel to achieve higher power output.
Six 24/3000/70 units, for example, provide 15kW / 18kVA output power with 420 Amps of charging capacity."

So this thing is super scalable. I like it! How much does one of these MultiPlus 24/3000/70 units cost? ... Edit: I just googled. Looks like you will have to spend ~$2,500 to buy two. You will need two for a rapid charger, or 240V.

 

[schwankl]

They are ~$1400 ... waiting for the next ebay 20% off day - they usually cap it at $200, but thats a lot of beer and I am not in a rush.

 

[bluefxstc]

I finally finished my off grid charging setup for my EX that I described in post #56. It is about 10KW so I can charge the bike twice. It does only make 120Vac, but with a different inverter it could produce 240Vac. The entire setup weighs about 250-300lbs so I have an eye bolt in each corner so I can lift it with an engine hoist to put in my truck and then strap it down. It also is mounted on wheels to move it around my shop easily. The Anderson connector allows me to connect it to the PFC 1500W charger on my riding lawn mower. The rubber covered bulge in the red wire is a 100A fuse for safety. Here are some pictures of the final setup, let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Philip]

Nice! It is 48V, right?

Are there some inexpensive 12-48 DC-DC chargers on the market that I could use to charge it from the truck's alternator, if I have to?

 

[bluefxstc]

Nice! It is 48V, right?

Are there some inexpensive 12-48 DC-DC chargers on the market that I could use to charge it from the truck's alternator, if I have to?

Not that I am aware of. Amazon has some 13-48 Vdc converters, but normally they are 3-5A at 48Vdc. What about a spec sheet on the 180 A version of the cells I have. You can see on the discharge curve at 3.4 Vdc the cell is basically full so you wouldn't lose much capacity. The meter, with a shunt, will also monitor current letting you know how much current is going in or out and a running total of the battery state of charge.

Another idea would be to convert the 12vdc to 120 and then use a lithium charger so you get the necessary control. The Elcon PFC chargers will limit their current draw on 120Vac so they don't pop circuit breakers, but I don't know how low that limit can go. I have sent Elcon an email to ask the question. If you could limit the input current down so the output is say, 500W, you would get the 12 vdc current draw down to a more reasonable level, but the draw back is longer charge times. For 500W the 14 Vdc current would be around 45A assuming a combined 80% efficiency for the charger and inverter. The charger efficiency is > 93% so the 80% is probably a reasonably close guess. I believe the current limit can be set for only 120Vac, so if you plugged into 240 at home, you would get the full 1500W output. The cost of an Elcon 1500 PFC charger, shipped in the L48 states is about $550.

I hope this helps answers some of your questions and gives you some ideas.

 

[Philip]

Here, I found a 12V volt to 48 volt DC/DC battery charger for lead acid and lithium batteries. The price is $1,275.

I think I have made the right choice to stay with 12V. The only drawback so far has been the 4/0 AWG wires between the batteries and the inverter.

 

[bluefxstc]

Here, I found a 12V volt to 48 volt DC/DC battery charger for lead acid and lithium batteries. The price is $1,275.

I think I have made the right choice to stay with 12V. The only drawback so far has been the 4/0 AWG wires between the batteries and the inverter.

Looks like a nice unit. Output is adjustable so tweek it down a bit and it should work good. 4/0 AWG is a pain to work with, but they do make some fairly flexible wire that is not bad. Not sure you need to go that large for what you are planning though, but in general, overkill is always appropriate. In my car I use 2/0 AWG for the battery to the controller and 4/0 AWG from the controller to the motor. I regularly draw up to 700A when accelerating at 140-150 Vdc and about 100-110A continuous going down the freeway. Here is a wire size vs current chart. If you put the charger as close as possible to the 12V source it will minimize the high current wiring and the need for the 4/0 AWG.

To make sure you keep it cool, you might want to mount it on an aluminum heat sink. Cooling is "Through convection and the base plate" so mounting it to a fined heat sink with good airflow will help keep it cool. Max temp is 50C at 100%, which is not very much in a vehicle.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I will tow with an Electric Vehicle (probably a 2012 Toyota RAV4 EV), so that will be my power source. Hopefully, I can find a 400VDC inverter the can work “off grid”, and output 240 VAC @ 60hz with a 16 amp continous load.

 

[Philip]

I have split the on-board and to-go charger discussion into its own thread. Click here to subscribe to notifications from the new thread:

A To Go Charger and other chargers

@TonyWilliams -- Feel free to edit the first post in order to edit the title of the new thread.

 

[SuburbanDad]

@Phillip what was your final build like? I recently setup a 500watt solar and 5 LiFeMgPO4 (valence) batteries on my rig, and am thinking about a 12v -> 240vac inverter to do quick charges between rides.

The pack is not enough to fill the alta completely (is about 2.6kw), but it is a good sink and if I run the LP generator at the same time, I think I should be able to get the Alta from 20% to 80% in about an hour with a 240v inverter. Go ride single track, let the sun fill the pack, rinse, repeat.

Point being - I am looking for a good 12v -> 240vac inverter and am not coming up with anything (for a reasonable price) that is split phase 60hz. *Lots* of stuff out there for Euro style 220v single phase. I am wondering if the alta charger is going to play nice with that?

what did your final van build out look like?

 

[Philip]

@Phillip what was your final build like? I recently setup a 500watt solar and 5 LiFeMgPO4 (valence) batteries on my rig, and am thinking about a 12v -> 240vac inverter to do quick charges between rides.

The pack is not enough to fill the alta completely (is about 2.6kw), but it is a good sink and if I run the LP generator at the same time, I think I should be able to get the Alta from 20% to 80% in about an hour with a 240v inverter. Go ride single track, let the sun fill the pack, rinse, repeat.

Point being - I am looking for a good 12v -> 240vac inverter and am not coming up with anything (for a reasonable price) that is split phase 60hz. *Lots* of stuff out there for Euro style 220v single phase. I am wondering if the alta charger is going to play nice with that?

what did your final van build out look like?

I ended up with Recipe #3, although with four 100A lithium batteries.
240V Inverter in a Van or Truck

Wow, how the Chinese prices went up! Thanks, @Trump.

You can get a slightly cheaper inverter, which appears to use all the same components:
SUNGOLDPOWER 4000W Max 12000W Input 240VAC Split Phase 120V / 240V Output Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger 120A DC 12V Converter Remote Control https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CH8RL4M/?tag=sce0f-20

If I were to do it again, I would probably buy one or two used Tesla batteries on eBay and have a ton of gigawatt hours available at any time day or night. Maybe a 24 or a 48V system then because you can't run 12V with Tesla batteries.

 

[101stunt]

I was going to build a generator under the van as well but, I've decided to go this path. I'm going to build a box and add the generator to the back of the van. I'm hoping i can make this happen in the next few weeks.

 

[Redwolf]

Interesting box, where did you find it?

 

[TCMB371]

Well, i was going to start a new thread but this thread provided great info so ill just piggyback.

Im likely buying a new 170WB 2500 Sprinter in the next few weeks and am already planning my strategy for charging my electric dirtbikes (now, 1 Alta MXR and 1 Stark Varg). I was researching whether to go the dual alternator + inverter route (cleaner looking install, quieter, etc) or just go with a large inverter gas generator and mount it to the truck, and it seems like the gas inverter generator route would be more versitile, cheaper, and be independent of the truck's engine system thus providing redundancy. I thought about building a massive battery bank but i tend to do 3- 4 full recharges in a ride day and that would mean needing a massive 25-30kw battery which i dont think is realistc to install in a van (or maybe it is, you guys tell me?).

Right now we really only need a generator that outputs about 4000 running watts to support the 240V 16A draw from the Elcon 3.3kw uhf charger. However, i suspect using the new Elcon 6.6kw charger will be a possibility in the future. This means needing an inverter generator that can support 240V 30A, and i might as well try to future proof this build in case.

Supporting a 240V 30A draw means about 7500 watts continuous and that means something like the Harbor Freight 9500watt inverter generator. My concern is that its big and heavy, and id rather not have to take up floor space to store this thing as well as have to wheel all 250lb+6gal fuel in and out of the van when im at the track.

Ideally id like to mount the generator outside of the truck, perhaps hitch mounted on a swivel arm so i can still use the rear doors to load/unload bikes. Would have to build a secure box around it to protect from theives and mother nature.

Do you guys think this would be a viable idea? Or do you recommend not doing this?

Edit:

This setup looks ideal but id need a bigger box. The 9500watt inverter generator is 24"deep by 31"wide by 29" high.

 

[C5tor]

I did do some testing on a generator to charge two Altas at once. The Predator 9500 inverter was not quite powerful enough to pull it off, so I went with a Westinghouse non-inverter generator. But the generator weighs as much as an Alta.

If I were to do it again, I would have gone with two smaller generators that were small enough to lift. I wish Harbor Freight made a 240v inverter generator between the 3500 and the 9500.

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