Alta Redshift MXR and MX on a Dyno - Riding Maps Demystified

[Bionicman]

Wow lots of info in this thread good work compiling this all.
Someone Mentioned this topic on page one but my question is what is the regenative input from each 1-4 maps?
Is it the same?
I don’t use my Alta for “haulin mail” but the couple times I decided nor rain, sleet or snow corner entry provided some inconsistencies with regen braking & normal braking. Disconcerting.
I guess my question regarding the regen is geared toward finding the appropriate target map to operate in thus tuning your gearing for your riding conditions & optimal power application to the rear wheel.

 

[Philip]

The regen maps were not recorded. They could have been recorded, theoretically, but I doubt the dyno operators knew how to do it. It took them a lot of effort to generate paper printouts, they couldn't export the digital data correctly, so I suppose recording something new would have been way too advanced for them. They work at a H-D dealership.

 

[revoltlution]

Someone Mentioned this topic on page one but my question is what is the regenative input from each 1-4 maps?
Is it the same?

On the EXR with latest firmware, all maps have the same regen.

 

[TCMB371]

MX/MXR map 2-4 has about 20% less regen than EX/EXR. Map 1 is the same as EX/EXR.

 

[Edabdo]

I am looking to do some testing using the Dynojet 250i that I use as a teaching aid for my class. Just how did you determine the dyno set up? As horsepower is a direct response to rpm and torque. I suppose my question is how did you measure rpm?

 

[TCMB371]

Rpm is easily calculated based on wheel speed. Check out the formulas in the sprocket calculator I put together:

Alta Redshift Sprocket Calculator

 

[Edabdo]

So you assuming the motor speed and only measuring at WOT? And of course the wheel diameter will change with speed albeit slightly.

I have yet to run an EV on our dyno and want to get an accurate as possible measurement that I can prove repeatable which is our goal with any dyno run.

 

[TCMB371]

Just saying that RPM in any type of motor is based on the various gear ratios between the motor shaft and the drive wheel. So all you'd really need is to know the speed of the rolling road and measure the torque being applied to that roller. Assuming your dyno is capturing those data points, it should be easy to convert the MPH to RPM simply knowing the wheel diameter, final drive ratio, and reduction gear ratio.

That said, i'd prefer to see torque/hp plotted over speed for an EV with direct drive. Reason being, you'd be able to use it as a reference to know exactly how much power you have on tap at WOT based on how fast you are going.

 

[Rashid510]

So you assuming the motor speed and only measuring at WOT? And of course the wheel diameter will change with speed albeit slightly.

I have yet to run an EV on our dyno and want to get an accurate as possible measurement that I can prove repeatable which is our goal with any dyno run.

We ran the bikes directly on our dyno. Plugged in specfic ratio values into the dyno computer per each bike (sprocket sizes was different). Went from 4000 all the way to max rpm of 18000 (all in Map 4) Did a static run of 8k in Map 4.

 

[BIG AL]

Have a 2018 and ask. are am looking at a 14 tooth or 13 tooth to replace my 12 teeth Front socks for a better smooth Setting for number 4 setting thanks

 

[TCMB371]

Have a 2018 and ask. are am looking at a 14 tooth or 13 tooth to replace my 12 teeth Front socks for a better smooth Setting for number 4 setting thanks

I tried a 13 tooth on my MXR and it definitely smooths out the power in all maps. That said, i didn't like it for motocross here in SoCal.

 

[Brent421]

Have a 2018 and ask. are am looking at a 14 tooth or 13 tooth to replace my 12 teeth Front socks for a better smooth Setting for number 4 setting thanks

I’ve tried bith 14 tooth and 13 tooth sprockets on the front. For me, the 14 tooth takes too much away from the bottom end, but 13 tooth was perfect. The 13 tooth added just the right amount of top end. I can now panic rev if needed on massive motocross jumps and go faster on the long straight always. It also leaves me with plenty of bottom end, slightly reducing wheel spin while getting me over the biggest jumps on even the tighter supercross tracks. For me the sweet spot is 13/53 and that’s what I run on both of my MXR’s.

 

[Edabdo]

I'll be setting my MXR on our dyno within the next couple of months. Will pass on the results. Thanks for the input!

 

[Mharris867]

I'll be setting my MXR on our dyno within the next couple of months. Will pass on the results. Thanks for the input!

Any results yet?

 

[Philip]

Any results yet?

Yes, he posted this: Dyno comparison Alta Vs two stroke and four stroke

 

[standbyu]

A few key observations (more will be added, as they are revealed):

1) Map 1 is a slow map. Period.

2) Map 3 is more powerful than Map 2, but only up until 30 mph. After that these two maps are identical.

3) Map 4 is in a category of its own. It is way-way more powerful than all other maps (I did not know that! Alta has not told us). If you are not using Map 4, then you are not using the full power of the Alta Redshift.

4) Comparing the MXR to the MX:
- The power is identical in all maps until about 20 mph
- From 20 to 37 mph the MXR and the MX are identical in Maps 1, 2 and 3.
- From 37 to 55 mph the MX is slightly more powerful than the MXR in Maps 1, 2 and 3.
- After 55 mph the MX shows a sudden power drop in Maps 1, 2 and 3.
- After 20 mph the MXR in Map 4 is 6-8 hp more powerful than the MX. But only in Map 4.
- No wonder I could not tell any difference between the two bikes in Maps 1, 2 and 3!

5) If Map 3 is not powerful enough at the top, but Map 4 is too jerky, then running Map 4 with a 14-tooth front sprocket (13-tooth for the MX) would create a "perfect Map 3", which is placed right between Map 2 and Map 4 through the entire speed range. The curve for Map 4 would shift/scale 16% to the right, reducing the power below 30mph and providing approximately the same power as Map 4 above 30mph, the point where the stock Map 3 signs off. The engine braking would drop 16% though.

6) In order to beat the Redshift MXR, the 450cc bikes would have to be at WOT, rev above 7,000 rpm, and shift perfectly (which is often impossible).

7) The horsepower curves are pretty flat, which means that the torque curves are highly digressive. The torque drops fast. This explains the excellent traction, the hill climbing ability, and the ability to drift and rear-steer at any speed.

Does the SM firmware kick into a reserve or reduced power mode sooner the the EX, EXR, MX and MXR? Seems my MXR (don't have any longer) would operate at top performance right down tp the last bar. My SM warning light kicks on and power reduces with a few bar left(?).

 

[C5tor]

Does the SM firmware kick into a reserve or reduced power mode sooner the the EX, EXR, MX and MXR? Seems my MXR (don't have any longer) would operate at top performance right down tp the last bar. My SM warning light kicks on and power reduces with a few bar left(?).

That is really an A-pack vs R-pack thing. The A-pack tends to drop off sooner than the R-pack. The last 15% really drops off fast. I’ve noticed this on my MX vs my MXR. The SM is an A-pack bike.

 

[enjoythesilenc]

That is really an A-pack vs R-pack thing. The A-pack tends to drop off sooner than the R-pack. The last 15% really drops off fast. I’ve noticed this on my MX vs my MXR. The SM is an A-pack bike.

I'm doing some tinkering on my mx and i was thinking I was being limited in power as the battery display was blinking. I hooked up multitool and see that the pack is 8% but the max power is still 35000W.

 

[standbyu]

That is really an A-pack vs R-pack thing. The A-pack tends to drop off sooner than the R-pack. The last 15% really drops off fast. I’ve noticed this on my MX vs my MXR. The SM is an A-pack bike.

Will installing the MX or MXR firmware make any diff?

 

[snydes]

Will installing the MX or MXR firmware make any diff?

No