Austin Forkner talks about Stark Varg

[Philip]

 

[Chaconne]

Interesting. The idea of a clutch to modulate power definitely still lingers even among the elite riders. Well designed fly-by-wire systems actually give the rider more control over power and the control plane, and as the systems get better and better the whole notion of a clutch will go away IMHO.

I have been riding my Stark for 6 months now in the gnarl where I used to live on the clutch with my ICE bikes and never once have thought I needed a clutch with the Stark. TBH when I bought the Stark my thinking was the lack of a clutch would be a sacrifice/compromise I would have to make but as it turned out --at least for me-- it was no sacrifice at all, in fact it is a benefit, and turned out even better than expected.

 

[rayivers]

+1. Alta's solution was to add what I call a 'clutch-up burst' right before WOT in mode 4, where the power increased a lot with little additional throttle rotation. I've never been a clutch-guy, but it felt a lot like a clutch dump to me so maybe lots of racers would prefer it. Just another thing easily fixed by the user-programmable Stark throttle maps we'll likely never experience.

 

[fsfs]

+1. Alta's solution was to add what I call a 'clutch-up burst' right before WOT in mode 4, where the power increased a lot with little additional throttle rotation. I've never been a clutch-guy, but it felt a lot like a clutch dump to me so maybe lots of racers would prefer it. Just another thing easily fixed by the user-programmable Stark throttle maps we'll likely never experience.

After much playing with throttle "curves" I really don't believe in them. If you make one section of rotation less sensitive, the other becomes more sensitive. So you have made it better for one case, and worse for another.

With ICE you can regulate how sensitive the throttle is by gear selection. You can also do this on the varg with map selection, however the map number on the display is too small.

IMO, when a really good rider goes from ICE to electric they initially miss the clutch. With a bit of time they learn to control the bike well with just throttle -- which works because it is more precise and linear. So the conclusion is that the clutch is not really needed and that it is better to put a hand brake there.

However, I don't think this thinking is sound; the clutch can still help with power modulation and impulse power delivery control (basically simulate dropping the clutch). There are also other neat tricks you can do besides just emulating a clutch.

 

[rayivers]

After much playing with throttle "curves" I really don't believe in them. If you make one section of rotation less sensitive, the other becomes more sensitive. So you have made it better for one case, and worse for another.

Wow - could not possibly disagree more! My Alta's throttle map/'curve' #1 feels weak from 0 to WOT, while #4 is stronger everywhere and way better for me and my riding style in every case. Not sure what's meant by "sensitive", I think in terms of RW torque/hp at specific throttle-rotation percentages.

 

[Theo]

Wow - could not possibly disagree more! My Alta's throttle map/'curve' #1 feels weak from 0 to WOT, while #4 is stronger everywhere and way better for me and my riding style in every case. Not sure what's meant by "sensitive", I think in terms of RW torque/hp at specific throttle-rotation percentages.

I think that what @fsfs means is the problem shown in this picture, in which the original curve is supposed to be a straight line; probably not what we have in our bikes:

and this is one reason for which I usually dislike such curves for joysticks when playing flight simulators.

By the way, as far as I know our brains perceive things in a logarithmic way and that's why the magnitude of stars is logarithmic and the audio volume is, too. I read that even our perceprion of force is logarithmic.
Another thing to consider is that with one only gear the throttle position is not reset every like 15 mph like when shifting on ICE bikes and so to just keep a constat high speed the throttle should be at a high percentage of rotation.
Then, in order to feel a more linear acceleration, which depends linearly on force, I suspect that we would need a rising curve like the one on the right, so that at higher speeds power would rise faster and also compensate for our logarithmic brain.

Anyways I guess that if we had the possibility to set curves and maybe save many, we would find what works best for each track and for each ground condition.

 

[MadpdXabbott]

Did he even ride it ?

 

[rayivers]

Thanks much for these! Do you know of any editable ones online, to create our own map diagrams?

 

[Theo]

Do you know of any editable ones online, to create our own map diagrams?

Unfortunately I don't and I have to point out that I just made those pictures to illustrate a concept, but apparently the power curve adjustment of the Varg will have rpms and power as variables instead of throttle position and power: just take a look at this picture at 8:13 here:

I think that the grey curve is the maximum power possibly available at any rpm like it was a dyno chart with power set to maximum and then the adjustment is done by selecting a point and changing the values with those virtual + and - buttons on the phone.
So if you want to make curves just to share your ideas I think that you can draw them with any CAD software or using a line graph in a spreadsheet (this looks like the best option to me) or even just Paint, whereas if you want to share a curve with the Varg that you will possibly buy , when it will be possible to edit them using the app, let's hope we will be allowed to share them. In that way if I've never ridden in a track and you have you can share your map and I will use it as a starting point.

 

[Oded]

+1. Alta's solution was to add what I call a 'clutch-up burst' right before WOT in mode 4, where the power increased a lot with little additional throttle rotation. I've never been a clutch-guy, but it felt a lot like a clutch dump to me so maybe lots of racers would prefer it. Just another thing easily fixed by the user-programmable Stark throttle maps we'll likely never experience.

Are you sure Alta embedded this feature? Never noticed it.
In map 4 on the mx map?

It takes a lot of courage to give full throttle at map 4.