Charged Cycle Works - Stark Varg vs Ultra Bee Trail Ride Test

[HadesOmega]

Saw this from Charged Cycle Works. I'm amazed how good the Ultra Bee is to be able to compare it to the Varg. Sometimes you don't need larger more powerful bike, it's all about balance. I guess it depends on your skill level and size. That dude was tall so I could only imagine how he feels on a Light Bee.

 

[Number Six]

It's interesting ; for most single track trails Varg needs to be less motorbike / Ultra needs to be more motorbike.
I bought an Ultra & have been developing the chassis ( throwing $$ at it ) for a couple months, it needs several critical mods / parts to feel competent & thus fun on the trail.
I did get a ride on a Varg prior & it's pretty brilliant but also a lot of bike, for amateur MX, it'd be hard to imagine anything better than a Varg.
Technical single track has much different requirements though, & while I'm not relishing the idea of having to modify & upgrade major systems on the Ultra, at least it IS possible & the results are terrific so far, but the real kicker is ; it weighs in @ 200 lbs !
No amount of money or ingenuity can shave 60 lbs off a Varg ...
.

 

[F451]

It's interesting ; for most single track trails Varg needs to be less motorbike / Ultra needs to be more motorbike.
I bought an Ultra & have been developing the chassis ( throwing $$ at it ) for a couple months, it needs several critical mods / parts to feel competent & thus fun on the trail.
I did get a ride on a Varg prior & it's pretty brilliant but also a lot of bike, for amateur MX, it'd be hard to imagine anything better than a Varg.
Technical single track has much different requirements though, & while I'm not relishing the idea of having to modify & upgrade major systems on the Ultra, at least it IS possible & the results are terrific so far, but the real kicker is ; it weighs in @ 200 lbs !
No amount of money or ingenuity can shave 60 lbs off a Varg ...
.

"No amount of money or ingenuity can shave 60 lbs off a Varg ..."

Exactly. For single track riding, I agree completely and that is why I cancelled my Varg order (plus all the delivery hassles).

If I was shopping for a single track e-dirt bike, the Ultra Bee would be my top pick at the moment.

I sold my Ultra Bee but only because at 6'5" I couldn't make the 7/8's size work for me, even with all the usual tall guy mods.

So I'm back to waiting for a 200 - 240 lb full sized, quality suspension, normal ergos, 50 mile range, affordable, e-dirt bike. At 63 yrs old, I'm close to ageing out of dirt bikes, which is really annoying me because I'm thinking my dream e-dirt bike is about to be released any month now.

Been thinking that Alta killer was coming out any month now ever since the original Alta came out, beginning to wonder if it will ever happen, Lol.

 

[HadesOmega]

Keep your eye on the Talaria Dragon that might be what you are looking for. It's in between a Varg and Ultra with decent suspension and 28kw power.

So I'm back to waiting for a 200 - 240 lb full sized, quality suspension, normal ergos, 50 mile range, affordable, e-dirt bike. At 63 yrs old, I'm close to ageing out of dirt bikes, which is really annoying me because I'm thinking my dream e-dirt bike is about to be released any month now.

 

[DonCox]

"No amount of money or ingenuity can shave 60 lbs off a Varg ..."

Exactly. For single track riding, I agree completely and that is why I cancelled my Varg order (plus all the delivery hassles).

If I was shopping for a single track e-dirt bike, the Ultra Bee would be my top pick at the moment.

I sold my Ultra Bee but only because at 6'5" I couldn't make the 7/8's size work for me, even with all the usual tall guy mods.

So I'm back to waiting for a 200 - 240 lb full sized, quality suspension, normal ergos, 50 mile range, affordable, e-dirt bike. At 63 yrs old, I'm close to ageing out of dirt bikes, which is really annoying me because I'm thinking my dream e-dirt bike is about to be released any month now.

Been thinking that Alta killer was coming out any month now ever since the original Alta came out, beginning to wonder if it will ever happen, Lol.

Hey F451, what are you riding right now? There are a few of us out there that are modifying existing great bikes ( YZ250F, 450F, CRF's KTM full size, old and new, frames) into some really fun track bikes and trail bikes. I have built quite a few, and I they are so fun. I built a 2017 KTM 150SX into a 242lb 40 mile range great trial and track bike. I personal bike is a 2014 YZ250F with a smaller battery, good for about 30 miles of trail riding, or about 12laps on the Glen Helen Talladega track. It weighs 232lbs. The motor controller we use puts out about 40HP with plenty of torque. I am cancelling my order for the Stark for all the reasons, but mainly because I just love riding my bike. It is simple, works, and I can work on it if needed. I am a couple of weeks away from 79 years old, and still love to ride. Electric bikes are easier to ride, and have saved my ass many times. I have an electric YZ85 too and an electric KTM 2008 SX that is street legal, that I am going to sell, I am building a KX85 right now for a 15 year old, I have a 2005 CRF to build next, and have a 2022 KTM I have to get started on. I thought I was retired. You have propably seen my bike in this forum, but here is my YZ250F and here was me at Glen Helen last month. It is Doug Dubach that passed me, He was on the first row start.

 

[Oded]

And I am still surprised why not many more riders grab a used Alta for half the price of a Varg and tear the single tracks with it.

Alta's suspension is better for enduro riding than the Varg's which is motocross oriented (very stiff).
Weight is about the same.
Range is 10-15% better on the Varg.
Varg's added hp is not useful on the single tracks.

A used Alta can be had for less that an Ultra Bee if I am not mistaken...

 

[F451]

Keep your eye on the Talaria Dragon that might be what you are looking for. It's in between a Varg and Ultra with decent suspension and 28kw power.

I'm pretty sure the Dragon isn't full sized so its not a fit for me at 6'5".

 

[F451]

Hey F451, what are you riding right now? There are a few of us out there that are modifying existing great bikes ( YZ250F, 450F, CRF's KTM full size, old and new, frames) into some really fun track bikes and trail bikes. I have built quite a few, and I they are so fun. I built a 2017 KTM 150SX into a 242lb 40 mile range great trial and track bike. I personal bike is a 2014 YZ250F with a smaller battery, good for about 30 miles of trail riding, or about 12laps on the Glen Helen Talladega track. It weighs 232lbs. The motor controller we use puts out about 40HP with plenty of torque. I am cancelling my order for the Stark for all the reasons, but mainly because I just love riding my bike. It is simple, works, and I can work on it if needed. I am a couple of weeks away from 79 years old, and still love to ride. Electric bikes are easier to ride, and have saved my ass many times. I have an electric YZ85 too and an electric KTM 2008 SX that is street legal, that I am going to sell, I am building a KX85 right now for a 15 year old, I have a 2005 CRF to build next, and have a 2022 KTM I have to get started on. I thought I was retired. You have propably seen my bike in this forum, but here is my YZ250F and here was me at Glen Helen last month. It is Doug Dubach that passed me, He was on the first row start.

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View attachment 10866

Hi Don, thanks for the info and encouragement. I've seen your builds here and they are impressive. I just sold my Alta MXR (loved it, but not the weight and no factory support) and am back to riding my nicely setup '16 Husky FE350 which works pretty good for me, although it is getting a bit long in the tooth.

And I'm neck deep in a few projects right now (with hardly any room for them - drives me crazy), I'm resurrecting a terribly abused '82 Suzuki Katana 1000 project, and reviving a 24 years dormant '78 280Z (both progressing at a steady snails pace).

So if I go with an e-dirt bike, I wouldn't have the time or energy to take on a project, plus I'd like it to be from one of the majors with local dealer support, or possibly a Sur Ron if they build a full sized e-dirt bike.

The Ultra Bee would have been almost perfect for me except for it being 7/8th sized. -Ed

 

[AL_V]

So if I go with an e-dirt bike, I wouldn't have the time or energy to take on a project, plus I'd like it to be from one of the majors with local dealer support, or possibly a Sur Ron if they build a full sized e-dirt bike.

Sur Ron has a full sized e dirt bike, the Storm Bee, unfortunately it's rather underwhelming...

 

[F451]

Sur Ron has a full sized e dirt bike, the Storm Bee, unfortunately it's rather underwhelming...

280 lb porker on single track? No thanks, Lol.

 

[Michael Anders]

"No amount of money or ingenuity can shave 60 lbs off a Varg ..."

Exactly. For single track riding, I agree completely and that is why I cancelled my Varg order (plus all the delivery hassles).

If I was shopping for a single track e-dirt bike, the Ultra Bee would be my top pick at the moment.

I sold my Ultra Bee but only because at 6'5" I couldn't make the 7/8's size work for me, even with all the usual tall guy mods.

So I'm back to waiting for a 200 - 240 lb full sized, quality suspension, normal ergos, 50 mile range, affordable, e-dirt bike. At 63 yrs old, I'm close to ageing out of dirt bikes, which is really annoying me because I'm thinking my dream e-dirt bike is about to be released any month now.

Been thinking that Alta killer was coming out any month now ever since the original Alta came out, beginning to wonder if it will ever happen, Lol.

Did you look at the Storm Bee. That is bigger and heavier thn the ultra but not as good as the Stark Varg

 

[HadesOmega]

The Storm Bee is similar to an Alta Redshift from what I have heard. I still have yet to see or ride one IRL. It's a trail bike not a motocross bike also. I think really the only thing it has over the Redshift is the battery can be swapped out easily, I heard the battery is 50lbs!

 

[Michael Anders]

In Aus two versions of storm bee one had lights and indicators the other just mx race plate. They are much heavier than the ultra bee At 126 kg or approx. 260 lbs. but also full size dirt bike and 21", 18" wheels std and I believe swapable battery.(90 Volt) 29 kgs I think Tucker from electric cycle rider on YT did a quick rundown late 2023

 

[Michael Anders]

SurRon Storm Bee MX Electric Dirt Bike

SurRon Storm Bee Electric Dirt Bikes - Australia's #1 Electric Motorcycle. Shop the Full Range of SurRoMX n Light Bee X and Storm Bee Electric Dirt Bikes at Ampd Brothers. Aus Wide Shipping! 1 Year Warranty & Ride Guarantee. Ride Now, Pay Later, Interest Free with Zip Pay and Humm!

ampdbros.com.au

Sells for just under AUD$12k

 

[AL_V]

In Aus two versions of storm bee one had lights and indicators the other just mx race plate. They are much heavier than the ultra bee At 126 kg or approx. 260 lbs. but also full size dirt bike and 21", 18" wheels std and I believe swapable battery.(90 Volt) 29 kgs I think Tucker from electric cycle rider on YT did a quick rundown late 2023

According to my converter 126kg = 277.78 lbs. Basically 18 lbs heavier than a Stark, which is already too heavy

 

[F451]

Did you look at the Storm Bee. That is bigger and heavier thn the ultra but not as good as the Stark Varg

Sur Ron has a full sized e dirt bike, the Storm Bee, unfortunately it's rather underwhelming...

280 lb porker on single track? No thanks, Lol.

I literally just wrote this ^^ in the post right above your's.

So yes, I've looked into the Storm Bee months ago when it was released, and am not interested in a 280 lb porker with questionable suspension for single track riding that I mentioned that I like to do.

If I wanted a porker for single track riding, I'd still be riding my 265 lb Alta MXR or would have taken delivery of the Varg that I had on order, but that one's a porker too at 260 lb.

Unfortunately at the moment there is not a 200 - 240 lb full sized, quality suspension, normal ergonomics, from an established mfr, e-dirt bike out there.

The battery technology/density is just not there yet, we seem to be stuck in the Alta/Varg hp to weight ratio range for the moment which is too bad. They are great bikes, just too heavy for what I'm looking for.

 

[AL_V]

I literally just wrote this ^^ in the post right above your's.

So yes, I've looked into the Storm Bee months ago when it was released, and am not interested in a 280 lb porker with questionable suspension for single track riding that I mentioned that I like to do.

If I wanted a porker for single track riding, I'd still be riding my 265 lb Alta MXR or would have taken delivery of the Varg that I had on order, but that one's a porker too at 260 lb.

Unfortunately at the moment there is not a 200 - 240 lb full sized, quality suspension, normal ergonomics, from an established mfr, e-dirt bike out there.

The battery technology/density is just not there yet, we seem to be stuck in the Alta/Varg hp to weight ratio range for the moment which is too bad. They are great bikes, just too heavy for what I'm looking for.

I think we all agree the Storm Bee is not worth considering. I have an Ultra bee (with Rox fixed handlebar risers), which is great for the money, but the suspension is not up to snuff, and the cost of upgrading the stock suspension takes the price too high for what it is. So it has those limitations.
I paid for my Varg, and I'm going to give it a try. It's heavy, but my 300xcw with add-ons and a full tank of gas weighs 259, so about the same.
Varg will get minimal weight added like a real tube in front, tubliss in back, handguards, LHRB with Clake style adapter.
It will be at least 265, probably 270, boooooo.

 

[Oded]

The new Cake Bukk may be a good candidate -
Ultra Bee size & weight with top of the line components like WP / Ohlins suspension.
pricy though.

 

[AL_V]

The new Cake Bukk may be a good candidate -
Ultra Bee size & weight with top of the line components like WP / Ohlins suspension.
pricy though.

I know a guy who had one of these, he said it was a great bike in all ways EXCEPT wasn't waterproof, he had major problems with water intrusion, and Cake took it back.
That was a few years ago, so hopefully they have resolved those problems...

 

[Oded]

I know a guy who had one of these, he said it was a great bike in all ways EXCEPT wasn't waterproof, he had major problems with water intrusion, and Cake took it back.
That was a few years ago, so hopefully they have resolved those problems...

This is their newer model, started shipping this week. Meant for off road conditions. Hopefully they solved the former model's issues.