Code 36 service required???

[Mark911]

My guess is, the "R" pack has different 18650 cells with a higher discharge C rating. If this is the case, it would make me wonder if the standard MX rated for 42HP is using the same electronics as the MXR which is rated for 50HP. My thinking is the MXR/EXR has a higher out put over the MX/EX due to less volt sag from the pack under full load. I am only guessing here, I have no idea if this is the case.

I agree, probably a higher C.

As far as the older packs being able to handle the higher current associated with the HP difference between MX/MXRs I'd need to do some wire diameter/power calculations. The main current carrying circuit between modules uses solid "rods" about 0.10" in dia. The negative return wire is also about 0.10" (AWG 10). Both terminate at the contactor which then connects them to the high voltage power connector on top of the pack (which looks to have either a voltage tap or current sensor built in) using similar gage wire. All wire connections are of the mechanical "crimp" type. If this circuit isn't enough to handle the additional amperage (heat/resistance) and surge loads it wouldn't be very difficult to upsize the conductors and/or use a more robust termination process.

The one area of concern might be the connection between the final Pos/Neg PCB traces and the Pos/Neg "receptacles" for the solid rods. These connections (8 in total) are all done interlayer. However, if necessary, external jumpers could be added to increase the capacity without much trouble.

I'd think the fuse wire connecting each battery in series would be adequate.

 

[Philip]

I asked Alta if it was possible to just buy an R battery for my MX, and they said that I would also have to buy a new harness because the current one might get fried. They also recommended against it, said it would be too expensive, but maybe it was just because they did not want to deal with this and wanted to sell me a new MXR instead.

 

[datadog]

The connectors on the R battery are different, designed for more connection cycles and easier to use, therefore the 19 harness is needed. As for the R battery making more power, that was never the main intention, it was longer use before thermal limiting. I think if you put a 17 MX and a 19 MXR on a dyno that the difference might be smaller than expected. It's a way better battery for MX in map 4, though, and that was the goal.

 

[Mark911]

Agreed, the higher C rating typically means lower total resistance and therefore less Joules Heating helps delay thermal limiting. They also typically show increased overall thermal conductivity, although all cylindrical Li-Ion batteries are pretty terrible in this respect. They have decent specific heat values, which helps (initially) to store all that heat without the core temps getting too high (above 55C), but eventually volumetric temperatures will increase and it's hell getting them back down again.

 

[Philip]

As for the R battery making more power, that was never the main intention, it was longer use before thermal limiting. I think if you put a 17 MX and a 19 MXR on a dyno that the difference might be smaller than expected. It's a way better battery for MX in map 4, though, and that was the goal.

I swore the MXR was no different power-wise, at least in Maps 1, 2 and 3. Map 4 is unusable on low-medium speed tracks with the stock gearing, so I had not used it much until I geared my bike up. The dyno testing confirmed this. It also explained why gearing up makes the bike better for all tracks, perhaps with an exception of supercross tracks.

 

[snydes]

@datadog are their any dangers of riding and charging the bike with this condition? I believe the original poster did say his would charge.

 

[snydes]

To update this situation, the bike will in fact charge with this condition. I’m told the error is the result of a module imbalance within the battery pack. There are more than one reasons for the imbalance but most likely the issue is the result of a failed wirebond. This error happened directly after the firmware was updated to the latest version. There were three cases of this happening (that I’m aware of) after the firmware was updated on 18 MXRs. The new firmware better detects these problems, so the issue could have been there for awhile prior to the update.

That’s all I’ve been able to piece together so far.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

@datadog are their any dangers of riding and charging the bike with this condition? I believe the original poster did say his would charge.

Personally, I would keep riding. If I were still part of Alta Motors, I would tell you to go to your nearest dealer.

 

[snydes]

UPDATED 12/23/18

I’m copying this info to this thread where it is more easily found. I will edit and add to only this list as we move forward.

These are the VINs and members (original purchaser) of 2018 MXRs who have experienced the code 35/36 battery issue so far.

#295 -Fog 25 - Replaced
#327 -Gertech - Replaced
#343 -snydes - After shutdown
#364 -MotoMinded - ?
#373 -Boak - After shutdown
#406 -Rocketz152 - Replaced
#422 -Scooter584 - Replaced
#426 -(info from datadog) - ?
#434 -Bought-2-L8 - After shutdown
#459 -Scott (CODE 34) - Replaced
#464 -Warren - Replaced

 

[TCMB371]

My bike is Vin 399. I thought it was only an issue with earlier vin's. Crossing my fingers it doesn't happen to my bike.

 

[Scooter584]

I’m copying this info to this thread where it is more easily found.

These are the VINs of members 2018 MXRs who have experienced the code 35/36 battery issue so far.

#295
#343
#364
#406

Edit: It was just brought to my attention #459 had its battery replaced on a code 34. Could also be related.
Error: Service Required Pos Weld

I had my battery replaced after only 6hrs ,bought new in July, just a month or two before the announcement. It was "code 33 service soon" after plugging into laptop at dealer they also found "code 35". That lead them to download all 6hrs and after examination they replaced the battery
Vin# 422 it now has 10 hrs on it and may be for sale if anyone is interested

 

[TriumphTwins]

Just curious has there been any of the ‘19 MXR’s that have had battery issues yet?

 

[snydes]

My bike is Vin 399. I thought it was only an issue with earlier vin's. Crossing my fingers it doesn't happen to my bike.

I think this emphasizes the fact that we need to have a resource to repair these batteries. This will sound self serving coming from one of the lucky two who are apparently SOL with battery faults, but it's only a matter of time until other batteries will need attention in one way, shape or form. Even if it's not related to this issue.

Just curious has there been any of the ‘19 MXR’s that have had battery issues yet?

Not that I'm aware of yet.

 

[Redwolf]

Just curious has there been any of the ‘19 MXR’s that have had battery issues yet?

I have EXR#103, with 1000 miles and 55 hrs, I am not experiencing any problems. Unless you consider a bald rear tire a problem... To be replaced very soon.

 

[datadog]

The highest VIN I have listed with Code 36 is 426. This is a 2018 model. I'm pretty sure the 2019 MXRs were assembled after the production fix.

 

[snydes]

The highest VIN I have listed with Code 36 is 426. This is a 2018 model. I'm pretty sure the 2019 MXRs were assembled after the production fix.

2018 MXR #464 code 36
MXR IN THE NEW ENGLAND SNOW Mode 1 is the snow mode =FUN!!!

 

[TCMB371]

The highest VIN I have listed with Code 36 is 426. This is a 2018 model. I'm pretty sure the 2019 MXRs were assembled after the production fix.

What is this production fix you are talking about? Did Alta identify batches of batteries and/or effected 2018 VIN#'s ? Sounds to me like it was a recognized issue and Alta should have recalled batteries on the identified range of bikes. My bike is #399 and i bought it in August.

 

[revoltlution]

The highest VIN I have listed with Code 36 is 426. This is a 2018 model. I'm pretty sure the 2019 MXRs were assembled after the production fix.

Any EXRs in that list?

 

[datadog]

What is this production fix you are talking about? Did Alta identify batches of batteries and/or effected 2018 VIN#'s ? Sounds to me like it was a recognized issue and Alta should have recalled batteries on the identified range of bikes. My bike is #399 and i bought it in August.

Pretty normal growing pains for any automotive manufacturing process. Alta replaced any battery that showed this issue, as they should have done . Recalls are safety related, and this issue did not require a recall. If Alta was still operating, it would have continued replacing any batteries with this issue. I'm personally sorry that you have anxiety over this. Your bike may be fine and never experience the issue. Keep riding and enjoying your Alta.

 

[Josh402]

Have any ‘18 MX bikes had this battery issue? I’m only seeing it about the MXR.