Display Deleter

[Bodie_Z]

Hey Everyone,

You may have seen some discussion about a display replacement being developed. I am the dude working on that. I want to give a little bit of background on the project and get some feedback for the final version of the board.

First off, this project is a display deleter. As you may know, displays are expensive and hard to come by. Additionally, the bike will not function without a working display. This new product will plug in as a replacement for the display, but it will not have a screen or buttons. It is just a microcontroller with a CAN transceiver in a small package so that the bike can turn on. It will probably have a few LEDs to display low battery, error conditions, and maybe something else, but these will just be boolean (ON/OFF) functions, nothing complicated. I do not know what the final cost will be, but it will be significantly cheaper than a new display. Also, I am planning on making the board and code open source, so if you have the know how, you can make your own. Right now, its looking like it will be very small (~1in^2) and I am planning on mounting it in the horn hole.

So far, I have done a proof of concept and got the bike to turn on using a arduino-type controller to simulate the CAN messages coming from the display. I have also developed a first protoype to start working out the code and functions of the final prototype. I am getting close to taking my first stab at a final version of the PCB, so I wanted to reach out and see what functions would be desirable to you all.

As I mentioned above, at a minimum, I am planning on giving a low battery indicator and a check engine light. The low battery indicator will turn on at some SOC, I am thinking 10% but its up for debate. The check engine light will turn on if there are any error messages or faults. I also will probably add a light to indicate that the contactors are closed and that the throttle is live. Please let me know if there is another function you think would be useful.

This project is still many months out from being finished, but I wanted to get some input and see if theres even any interest in this before I put too much more time in.

Ive watched some of the discussion about displays in some other threads so I want to reiterate:

1) This is not a display. It will not have a screen.
2) It will not have any buttons so there will be no user input.

Looking forward to the discussion!

 

[wwmotors]

Hi Bodie_Z, for me the display has a very important information on a riding day: The SOC! So i can plan my stints and charging better. Is it possible, to show the SOC with a few LEDs (may be 6 to 8 in a row)? That would be perfect. In that case, You can keep the display really small and the most important information is there!
Cheers

 

[privateer703]

I would probably be interested in buying one of these for a just-in-case scenario. But I agree with @wwmotors in that we need a little more SOC info than low battery. Two seven segment led's would allow a numbered display (which would actually be better IMHO than the current bar display) without being overly difficult to mount or program. Also we would need some sort of Map indication, that could easily be done with an RGB led (Blue-Green-Yellow-Red).

 

[Mark911]

Cool, good info. I would have guessed that simply terminating the can bus using a 120 ohm resistor would have worked. I guess you tried that and it didn't. Must be looking for acknowledgment messages.

 

[wwmotors]

I would probably be interested in buying one of these for a just-in-case scenario. But I agree with @wwmotors in that we need a little more SOC info than low battery. Two seven segment led's would allow a numbered display (which would actually be better IMHO than the current bar display) without being overly difficult to mount or program. Also we would need some sort of Map indication, that could easily be done with an RGB led (Blue-Green-Yellow-Red).

I agree about Map Info LED! Good idea!

 

[F451]

Just to be clear, this would replace the current display?

Is there a provision to have the original display (entire unit) plugged in and also functioning?

At least one member has relocated their display to keep it safe. Would be nice to keep the original display functioning and relocated if possible.

 

[Matt]

I feel like this is way past the realm of easy or worth it but what about incorporating a Bluetooth module that connects to a phone and gives information about SOC that way. Would require an app or program to display this but it would be nice.

 

[C5tor]

Perhaps just bypass the display or LEDs altogether. Simply have two exposed wires on the seat running to the battery. If it feels like 350v running through your ass, you are at 100% SOC. If it feels more like about 325v, then you are probably at 75%, etc. If you can actually sit on the bike and still feel your limbs and you aren't dead, then the bike probably needs a charge. Sure, it is a seat of the pants thing, and not exactly scientific, but it would sure ensure that you learned to stand while riding! Also good if you need defibrillating when you are about to case that 100ft jump. Not so good for whiskey throttle situations.

 

[Redwolf]

Perhaps just bypass the display or LEDs altogether. Simply have two exposed wires on the seat running to the battery. If it feels like 350v running through your ass, you are at 100% SOC. If it feels more like 325v, then you are probably at 75%, etc. If can actually sit on the bike and still feel your limbs and you aren't dead, then the bike probably needs a charge. Sure, it is a seat of the pants thing, and not exactly scientific, but it would sure ensure that you learned to stand while riding! Also good if you need defibrillating when you are about to case that 100ft jump. Not so good for whiskey throttle situations.

Sounds like a steep learning curve...

I think for today I will just stick with the OEM display to discern current SOC.

 

[enjoythesilenc]

This is great. If you build a component that allows the bike to be functional without the ALta display, you have a winner. As for the added indicators, they are gravy.

In deciding what gravy features make sense, can you give us a menu of what might be possible?

The alta display gets:
System armed warning
SOC status
Fault codes/messages
Map position
odometer
charging messages
what else?

SOC status is by far the most important to me, the rest of what I listed is optional or noncritical. IE map position is easily set blindly without looking at a display

 

[Bodie_Z]

Thanks for all of the posts guys!

Seems like more SOC granularity is the main request. Separating it into different colors is the most reasonable approach I think. I think we could use 4 different colors to distinguish different regions. (off-green-yellow-red). Heres a proposal of the breakdown

Off - 100% - 70%
Green - 70% - 50%
Yellow - 50% - 20%
Red - 20% - 0%

When im out on the trail/track, I have two main questions I ask myself relating to SOC...

- Do I need to head back to the truck?
- How hard can I push it while heading back?

The green LED would let you know that you should start thinking about turning around. The yellow LED would let you know that you should definitely be heading back, maybe start easing off the throttle if youre way out there. At red, you should be almost there. Past that, I dont think I would get much more benefit knowing that I was specifically at 65% or 60%. If you want to know specifically for charging, you could always hook up multitool and youll get more info (temp, current, ect.) anyway.

The red LED could serve a dual purpose and start flashing if there is a fault or error. The "contactors closed" could just be a blue LED that turns on once they are closed.

I do not think a map indicator is worth it. Is it going to be easier/faster to look down and click to the map you want or just reset to map one and put it where you need it? Theres also not really a case for switching on the fly because I doubt anyone is checking the display before they click it up to map 4 for the sand section.

@Matt Bluetooth is an absolute non-starter right now. Perhaps at some point in the future it can be considered, but I dont think it will ever be worth it.

@F451 This would replace the display. Theoretically, it would be possible to connect both, but it would take some clever controls which are out of scope for this project. For the people who have moved the display, this would just swap out with the display and itd be a smaller, cheaper, more easily mounted solution.

@enjoythesilenc Anything connected to the CAN bus has access to all messages on the CAN bus. If we really wanted to, we could have an indicator for the voltage of cell 27 in the stack if we wanted. You can browse through multitool and take a look, but I think we have all of the important stuff covered. If youre interested in learning more about CAN then send me a message and I can explain it a bit more.

 

[enjoythesilenc]

How many LED are possible? It sounds like so far you have one for state of charge and one for error/contactor closed.

If the arduino? has access to all hundreds of data parameters then there are a bunch of cool things that people could make use of eventually. Battery temp seems like it would be easy to incorporate and possibly useful as well but maybe its already covered by the error led.

 

[privateer703]

Would you offer us the ability to buy the source code from you?

 

[Jayfox911]

Would you offer us the ability to buy the source code from you?

I thought he said he would share once complete but what if he posts on GitHub or somewhere similar for other coders to assist or review the code and provide feedback?

 

[Rashid510]

@privateer703, @Jayfox911 thats correct, the board and code will be open source. This means you can do what you want (add functionality, additional LEDs).

The core function is the ability to delete the display. Im totally stoked that something like this is in the works because then if a display breaks in the field, or when riding some awesome terrain and something happens, I have confidence that I can get my bike running.

 

[F451]

@F451 This would replace the display. Theoretically, it would be possible to connect both, but it would take some clever controls which are out of scope for this project. For the people who have moved the display, this would just swap out with the display and itd be a smaller, cheaper, more easily mounted solution.

Thanks Bodie. Good luck with the project, sounds like another great option to help keep these bikes running.

 

[Motophyllic]

Just a consideration, I’d rather the SOC lights be 100-80, 80-60, 60-40, 40-20, 20-0 just because when I’m out on a ride, 50% is not enough to get me back. It seems I need to start heading back at about 55 or 60% to be safe. As soon as light #3 shines, it’s time to turn back. Thank you for your efforts and time in doing this. I’ll definitely want one.

 

[hightechnature]

Thanks for taking on this project. I'd enjoy the ability to increase the regeneration on my bike to get more range. I exped that this will likely be outside of the scope of what you are working on. Thanks.

 

[Rashid510]

Thanks for taking on this project. I'd enjoy the ability to increase the regeneration on my bike to get more range. I exped that this will likely be outside of the scope of what you are working on. Thanks.

That would definitely be out of the scope of the display delete unfortunately. Increasing regen means modifying maps.

 

[F451]

Thanks for taking on this project. I'd enjoy the ability to increase the regeneration on my bike to get more range. I exped that this will likely be outside of the scope of what you are working on. Thanks.

That is interesting. I find the regen on my '18 MXR, map 2 & 3 is like dropping a boat anchor. If I roll off the throttle going down hill and let the bike "coast" it will slowly slow down until it stops. Doesn't feel like I'm getting much charge sent back to the battery since I can't let it stay in "regen" too long.

My regen feels like I'm applying the brakes and I actually use the rear brake way less then on an ICE bike due to the heavy regen effect.

I can't imagine having more regen.