Displaying GPS/Trail/Mapping app on Stark phone while riding

[Chadx]

I have a GPS/Trail/Mapping app that I loaded on my Stark phone (onX Offroad in this case, but question applies to any mapping/trail app).

I've found that apps work and run normally on the phone, but while riding, only in the background. The issue is, every time you put the bike in drive, the display changes to the Varg gauge. I experimented with turning off the Stark phone's bluetooth, so it would not communication with the bike since it's not needed, but the phone keeps popping up a message saying to enable bluetooth to communicate with the bike. So that doesn't work.

What I've been doing is stopping and switching over to the app when I need to refer to it for directions. To the app, I come to a stop and within a second or two (faster than I can take off my glove), the little "home/house" button appears. I can click on that, hit the button to show all running apps, and select the app, then I can look at, and use, the app's map. While it is easier than pulling my personal phone out of my riding pants cargo pocket, unlocking, and looking at the app on that, I'd much prefer if the map could be displayed on the Varg screen as I'm riding for on-the-fly navigation.

I searched this forum and other sources and wasn't able to find anything. I'll reach out to Stark as well, and share their response, but curious if anyone has determined a way to display anything other than the Varg gauge while you are riding. Thanks.

 

[Beagle]

I have a GPS/Trail/Mapping app that I loaded on my Stark phone (onX Offroad in this case, but question applies to any mapping/trail app).

I've found that apps work and run normally on the phone, but while riding, only in the background. The issue is, every time you put the bike in drive, the display changes to the Varg gauge. I experimented with turning off the Stark phone's bluetooth, so it would not communication with the bike since it's not needed, but the phone keeps popping up a message saying to enable bluetooth to communicate with the bike. So that doesn't work.

What I've been doing is stopping and switching over to the app when I need to refer to it for directions. To the app, I come to a stop and within a second or two (faster than I can take off my glove), the little "home/house" button appears. I can click on that, hit the button to show all running apps, and select the app, then I can look at, and use, the app's map. While it is easier than pulling my personal phone out of my riding pants cargo pocket, unlocking, and looking at the app on that, I'd much prefer if the map could be displayed on the Varg screen as I'm riding for on-the-fly navigation.

I searched this forum and other sources and wasn't able to find anything. I'll reach out to Stark as well, and share their response, but curious if anyone has determined a way to display anything other than the Varg gauge while you are riding. Thanks.

That would be a terrific addition for off-road, sounds like something they should be happy to implement, the kind of thing that would justify using a smartphone instead of a more standard dashboard, might as well use this to their advantage to stand out even further from the crowd.

 

[Theo]

sounds like something they should be happy to implement, the kind of thing that would justify using a smartphone instead of a more standard dashboard, might as well use this to their advantage to stand out even further from the crowd.

I agree. They said that they would have implemented it in their first video:

 

[Chadx]

I emailed Stark. Meanwhile, their auto-reply, that acknowledged receipt of email, suggested I ask their AI bought "Sam".
www.starkfuture.com/sam (Note: You have to be logged in to your Stark user account to use it).
I couldn't resist some fun. I really should have saved the conversation as it was lot more entertaining that my brief paraphrasing below. Ha. But it went something like this:

Me: Explained situation and desire to be able to display mapping app on the Stark phone while riding.

Sam: We understand but we don't allow it for safety reasons so rider is not distracted.

Me: Not good enough, bot. It is a valuable feature that should be allowed. Everyone uses navigation apps every day in vehicles. How is this different?

Good ol' Sammy still understood the situation and the value of using navigation, but he said Stark feels it's a safety issue. Than he went on to suggest I use a dedicated GPS or phone mount to display mapping apps via a different device.

Me: Wait, you just said it was a safety issue but then you suggest I do it anyway, but with a different device? That doesn't make sense. Owners should just be able to display it on the Stark phone if they want.

Sam: Would you like me to open a ticket so Stark can review and consider your request?

Me: I already emailed the humans so no need. I'll work with them.

Sam: Sounds good. I'm closing this conversation. <Boop> And Sammy boy was gone.

----------------

When Stark replies to my email, I'll share it here. They are typically quite responsive in my experience (I emailed them about stock bar bend specs and got several pdf charts back within a day). Once I share response and we see where this goes, then maybe anyone else that wants this feature can potentially email them so they can weigh the demand for this against all the other priorities they have. Maybe we can get them to make a change. I'd settle for being able to just turn off bluetooth so the Stark phone is not connected to the bike and I can turn that one later in the day to check SOC, but they would need to eliminate the constant pop up message that bluetooth is not enabled and it needs to be if I want to display bike info while riding. But ideally, they will allow us to display whatever app we want as we ride and not flip back to the Varg app every time we put the bike in drive, etc.

 

[FreedomFlyer]

I have the same issue. I think I might just try turning the Stark App off. Then turn it on from time to time to check battery status.

 

[AL_V]

I have the same issue. I think I might just try turning the Stark App off. Then turn it on from time to time to check battery status.

This works, if you touch the square button, then fling the Stark app upward to force stop it, you can then use your navigation app to your heart's content without it being interrupted.
Stark recommends against doing this, because it will prevent warnings like overheating, etc.

 

[Chadx]

This works, if you touch the square button, then fling the Stark app upward to force stop it, you can then use your navigation app to your heart's content without it being interrupted.
Stark recommends against doing this, because it will prevent warnings like overheating, etc.

Nice! Thanks for the idea @AL_V and @FreedomFlyer. I hadn't thought of that...but then I only loaded my mapping app one ride ago. I'll do this until Stark makes a change.

This is even more reason for them to work on this. Should be able to have Stark app running in the background so it can come to the front for errors/warnings but remain in the background when rider wants mapping app, or other app, in the foreground while riding. Easy enough to manually flip to Stark app for battery percentage. And, I don't need it to know which hp mapping I'm in.

 

[Chadx]

This is the update I received from Stark.

----------
Currently, the Stark phone is designed to prioritize the VARG gauge display when the bike is engaged. This is to ensure that critical information related to the bike's performance and status is always visible to the rider. Unfortunately, there is no setting available to override this behavior and allow other apps to display while riding.

The Bluetooth connection is essential for the Stark phone to communicate with the VARG, providing real-time data and updates. Disabling Bluetooth will prompt the phone to attempt reconnection, as you have experienced.

For now, the best workaround is to continue using the method you described: stopping to switch to the app when needed. We understand this may not be the most convenient solution, but it ensures that the bike's critical information remains accessible during operation.
If you have any further questions or need assistance with other features, feel free to ask!
Best regards,
Stark Future Team

--------

And my response:

Thank you for the outline of how and why the Stark app is prioritized. Please forward this request to the design and engineering team as there should be a simple way to make this work. If the concern is that errors and warnings are provided to the rider while using a mapping solution, the Stark app could simply pop to the foreground if there are warnings, similar to what it does now every time one puts it in Drive. There is no need to see battery percentage or power setting while riding as this information is not critical like warnings. The bike allows a rider to remove the phone from the cradle and leave at the trailer or keep it in a pocket to avoid damage, which means no warnings are provided, so even if the mapping app didn't allow warnings to pop to the foreground, it is similar to riding without the Stark phone in place, which is allowed.

Please forward the request to allow mapping apps to run in the foreground and only pop the Stark app to the foreground if there are critical warnings.

----------------
Stark response:
I forwarded it to our design and engineering team, I hope they can prioritize your request!
Best regards,
Stark Future Team

 

[Chadx]

This works, if you touch the square button, then fling the Stark app upward to force stop it, you can then use your navigation app to your heart's content without it being interrupted.
Stark recommends against doing this, because it will prevent warnings like overheating, etc.

Just experimented with this in the garage so no actual ride, but it works well enough for what I want to accomplish with a few caveats.

What I did:
I opened up the Stark app and my mapping app, so both were active.

With bike in Neutral (N), I clicked bottom button to Engage and set my chosen power setting, then follow the above steps to close the Stark app, leaving my mapping app on the display. It stayed up as long as the bike stayed engaged and remains in that same power setting.

However, with the Stark app off and the map showing, any of the following situations will trigger the Stark app to pop up/display:
- Shifting from N to Engaged (just means you have to Engage before closing the Stark app).
- Shifting into Neutral (either manually with the button or the expiration of the "Time to Neutral" timeout where it auto-shifts to neutral).
- Shifting between any of the stored power settings.

I can live with that because most of the time, I kind of know the route I want to take and so can look at the mapping software as I ride (confirming a turn is or is not the one I want). So far, the only time I'm shifting between power settings is when I go from single track to 50" trails and so not much of a bother there.

Since going to N impacts it, I'll likely end up increasing the "Time to Neutral" timeout. Previously, I liked it automatically shifting into neutral fairly quickly (15 second default), but not if I have to go through stopping the Stark app, to keep my mapping software to the front, every time it shifts to neutral. I may extend Time to Neutral from 15 second (default and minimum) to 60 seconds (the max). That extra 45 seconds of leeway should be enough as 60 seconds is enough time to stop to wait another rider, look at scenery, look at mapping software, etc. And if longer, so be it. I'll just close the app again after I engage a power setting again.

 

[AL_V]

Just experimented with this in the garage so no actual ride, but it works well enough for what I want to accomplish with a few caveats.

What I did:
I opened up the Stark app and my mapping app, so both were active.

With bike in Neutral (N), I clicked bottom button to Engage and set my chosen power setting, then follow the above steps to close the Stark app, leaving my mapping app on the display. It stayed up as long as the bike stayed engaged and remains in that same power setting.

However, with the Stark app off and the map showing, any of the following situations will trigger the Stark app to pop up/display:
- Shifting from N to Engaged (just means you have to Engage before closing the Stark app).
- Shifting into Neutral (either manually with the button or the expiration of the "Time to Neutral" timeout where it auto-shifts to neutral).
- Shifting between any of the stored power settings.

I can live with that because most of the time, I kind of know the route I want to take and so can look at the mapping software as I ride (confirming a turn is or is not the one I want). So far, the only time I'm shifting between power settings is when I go from single track to 50" trails and so not much of a bother there.

Since going to N impacts it, I'll likely end up increasing the "Time to Neutral" timeout. Previously, I liked it automatically shifting into neutral fairly quickly (15 second default), but not if I have to go through stopping the Stark app, to keep my mapping software to the front, every time it shifts to neutral. I may extend Time to Neutral from 15 second (default and minimum) to 60 seconds (the max). That extra 45 seconds of leeway should be enough as 60 seconds is enough time to stop to wait another rider, look at scenery, look at mapping software, etc. And if longer, so be it. I'll just close the app again after I engage a power setting again.

Thanks for testing and replying with results. Last time I tried this, the Stark app was not triggered by changing maps, but I think the app was updated at least once since then.
I would suggest turning off bluetooth on the phone to prevent the Stark app from being triggered.

OK, in the middle of writing this, I went out and tried it on my bike, and here is what happens for me:

After forcing the Stark app to stop, I can use a GPS app, and no matter what I do with maps, throttle, neutral etc, my Stark app stays dead, and GPS app stays active on screen.
In fact, after manually restarting the Stark app, I had to blank the phone screen, and unblank it to get the phone talking to the bike (battery percentage showing).

So, it seems to me that either you didn't really force the Stark app to stop, or our bikes/phones just behave differently.
EDIT: BTW, I never turned off bluetooth.
My app is on v.1.0.185 (416) Bike is on 1.0.159

 

[Upinsmoke57]

There's got to be a "safe" way to tap into the battery voltage somewhere and run a small display. That's really all we need.

 

[Chadx]

My app is on v.1.0.185 (416) Bike is on 1.0.159

Interesting.
My app and bike are on the same versions as you.
My app is on v.1.0.185 (416). Bike is on 1.0.159

Maybe app didn't shut down all the way, but I hit the button to display open apps and swiped it up, which seemed to close it like on my other android devices. It does pop up suspiciously fast (faster than I would expect a closed app to be able to open and display.

Last time, when I turned off bluetooth on the Stark phone, it popped up annoying/constant reminders that bluetooth needed to be on. But that was with the Stark app running. Off to the garage for another experiment to turn off both the app and bluetooth...

...

Further experimentation complete. I had hope for about 30 seconds. When I first booted everything up, opened mapping app, closed Stark app, and messed with it (leaving bluetooth on) everything seemed to work like I wanted it to. I changed power settings, and it left mapping app up. Map also stayed up when I let it timeout to neutral. I put it in walk mode and when I took it out of walk mode, the Stark app came up. Drat. I'd just booted up the bike and phone so thinking something (bluetooth?) was just not booted and connected yet. Was a thrilling 30 seconds, though, and fun while it lasted.

I did some more experiments in every combo of turning off bluetooth, then turning off Stark app. Turning off app then off bluetooth, etc. But each time, as soon as I would change power setting or let it shift back to N, it would pop up Stark app. Only now, it would bark that bluetooth needed to be enabled for everything to work.

Will be nice if a few others try this and report back what they find out. Could be down to how Stark phone is setup (from factory or settings I've changed as I've updated various app settings, etc.)

So right now, most useable method for me seems to be leaving bluetooth connected, having mapping app running, engaging my preferred power setting, then closing the Stark app. Seems like I'll be able to ride with map up until I change power setting, shift to neutral, or go into walk/reverse mode. The side benefit of this may be if the Varg triggers any warnings, the app may very well come to the front and I'll get that. Might be a happy medium, actually.

 

[Chadx]

 

[Chadx]

There's got to be a "safe" way to tap into the battery voltage somewhere and run a small display. That's really all we need.

My personal phone battery last plenty long that I could put a phone mount and use the mapping app on it. But then I have one more thing on the bars and risk damage to my phone. I've seen others adding various Trail Tech gauges (and I use the Trail Tach Voyager Pro on my snowbike and it's very nice including the mapping and being able to see where others in your group are located by sending GPS location back and forth via radio frequency). But, since the Stark phone/gauge is right there and can run any apps one wants, including mapping app, would be nice to simply use that and keep my personal phone out of harms way in my pocket. I'm also running my mapping app on my personal phone and actually doing my in-app tracking on that device rather than the Stark phone, but for checking for trail turn offs, it's a pain to stop, pull off at least on glove, pull phone out of cargo pocket, unlock, and look at app compared to having Stark phone. Heck, even if I have to stop and switch to my mapping app on the Stark phone, it's still better than digging my phone out of my pocket.

Curious as to what stats you'd want another display to show? Or are you thinking showing the actually battery voltage for a "kind of" rough, voltage-based battery SOC indicator? While it wouldn't be super accurate since voltage SOC is dependent on battery being at rest for a bit and not under load, it could give you a ballpark idea of when to log into the app and see a more detailed reading.

 

[AL_V]

Interesting.
My app and bike are on the same versions as you.
My app is on v.1.0.185 (416). Bike is on 1.0.159

Maybe app didn't shut down all the way, but I hit the button to display open apps and swiped it up, which seemed to close it like on my other android devices. It does pop up suspiciously fast (faster than I would expect a closed app to be able to open and display.

Last time, when I turned off bluetooth on the Stark phone, it popped up annoying/constant reminders that bluetooth needed to be on. But that was with the Stark app running. Off to the garage for another experiment to turn off both the app and bluetooth...

...

Further experimentation complete. I had hope for about 30 seconds. When I first booted everything up, opened mapping app, closed Stark app, and messed with it (leaving bluetooth on) everything seemed to work like I wanted it to. I changed power settings, and it left mapping app up. Map also stayed up when I let it timeout to neutral. I put it in walk mode and when I took it out of walk mode, the Stark app came up. Drat. I'd just booted up the bike and phone so thinking something (bluetooth?) was just not booted and connected yet. Was a thrilling 30 seconds, though, and fun while it lasted.

I did some more experiments in every combo of turning off bluetooth, then turning off Stark app. Turning off app then off bluetooth, etc. But each time, as soon as I would change power setting or let it shift back to N, it would pop up Stark app. Only now, it would bark that bluetooth needed to be enabled for everything to work.

Will be nice if a few others try this and report back what they find out. Could be down to how Stark phone is setup (from factory or settings I've changed as I've updated various app settings, etc.)

So right now, most useable method for me seems to be leaving bluetooth connected, having mapping app running, engaging my preferred power setting, then closing the Stark app. Seems like I'll be able to ride with map up until I change power setting, shift to neutral, or go into walk/reverse mode. The side benefit of this may be if the Varg triggers any warnings, the app may very well come to the front and I'll get that. Might be a happy medium, actually.

I edited my post #10 to add this: BTW, I never turned off bluetooth.
So we are getting different results, and I still think the most likely explanation is that for some reason your Stark app is not getting completely stopped.
I have an iPhone, so not a expert android user, but I suggest you might google more info on stopping apps on Android v11.

 

[Upinsmoke57]

My personal phone battery last plenty long that I could put a phone mount and use the mapping app on it. But then I have one more thing on the bars and risk damage to my phone. I've seen others adding various Trail Tech gauges (and I use the Trail Tach Voyager Pro on my snowbike and it's very nice including the mapping and being able to see where others in your group are located by sending GPS location back and forth via radio frequency). But, since the Stark phone/gauge is right there and can run any apps one wants, including mapping app, would be nice to simply use that and keep my personal phone out of harms way in my pocket. I'm also running my mapping app on my personal phone and actually doing my in-app tracking on that device rather than the Stark phone, but for checking for trail turn offs, it's a pain to stop, pull off at least on glove, pull phone out of cargo pocket, unlock, and look at app compared to having Stark phone. Heck, even if I have to stop and switch to my mapping app on the Stark phone, it's still better than digging my phone out of my pocket.

Curious as to what stats you'd want another display to show? Or are you thinking showing the actually battery voltage for a "kind of" rough, voltage-based battery SOC indicator? While it wouldn't be super accurate since voltage SOC is dependent on battery being at rest for a bit and not under load, it could give you a ballpark idea of when to log into the app and see a more detailed reading.

Yes, to be able to remove the phone entirely to keep it out of harms way when riding hard enduro or in your case run a dedicated mapping app. Even if a loose indication of SOC that's all I would need to not get stuck in the middle of nowhere due to running out of battery. You're right though, it would be difficult to accurately determine the SOC from 360.3 to 360.1 (Or whatever the actual values are.) But it would be enough to see the safe low voltage and avoid it.

 

[Chadx]

I edited my post #10 to add this: BTW, I never turned off bluetooth.
So we are getting different results, and I still think the most likely explanation is that for some reason your Stark app is not getting completely stopped.
I have an iPhone, so not a expert android user, but I suggest you might google more info on stopping apps on Android v11.

Yeah, the swipe up does close the app, but thinking I may need to Force Stop it. It's a little different with this old version of Android, but you can go to the home screen, long press the Stark App, select App Info and then do a Force Stop. That will be my next experiment.

 

[Chadx]

I think the group effort cracked the nut!

Two different ways, actually. Per your recommendation, @AL_V, I did a Force Stop on the app. That works. I'll add a few pics of those settings below.

But, while mucking around in the App screen, I found the real culprit. Stark app has "Display over other apps" enabled. That is why it keeps popping to the front, over the mapping app every time it gets input from the bike or user. I disabled that and now, even though the apps is active, it behaves like any other app and does it's thing in the background rather than jumping to the front every time the app has some interaction/feedback from the bike (changing power mode, changing from N to Engaged, going into/out of Walk Mode, bike tripping an error, etc.) That last bit is important because bike errors, like overheating motor, will NOT display on the screen. Something to be aware of.

Next thing I noticed was the phone screen went blank with the mapping app up. Default screen timeout was set to 1 minute. I changed it to 30 minutes.

Note that after I changed all these settings, I rebooted the Stark phone, just to be sure the app fully closed and all the settings took hold.

My riding is done for the winter, but hope this helps someone else. Appreciate everyone giving ideas and talking this through. Seems like we have two good options to allow an app, other than the Stark App, to be displayed while we ride.

----------------------------------------

Here are some images (pictures and not screen shots, so yes, there is glare) with comments.

Method 1:
First way to do it is Force Stop on the Stark app (because, apparently, closing the app is not enough and it pops back up. At least it does on my phone). You do this by going to the home screen, long pressing the Stark App icon, selecting App Info. The below screen opens and you select the Force Stop icon. Sometimes it may give you a warning that the app me de-stabilize. Well yeah. You are forcing it closed. Ha. But, I think Method 2 (further below) is a better way to accomplish this.





Method 2:
On that same screen, rather than doing a Force Stop, you can scroll down a bit and you see the section "Display over other apps". This was set to Allowed on my phone and is probably the default. I changed it to 'Not Allowed' by selecting it and then changing the toggle shown two images below.






When the mapping app is running and there is no user interaction, the Stark phone screen will time out. My default was one minute for the screen to go dark.
To adjust that, from the main phone screen, select the Settings icon (gears). You may have to swipe the wallpaper upward to show all installed apps if you don't already have the Settings icon on your main display screen. (You can add it to your main screen by long-pressing the icon and pulling it up to your main screen).

Once you open Settings, scroll down and select Display, then then scroll down and select Screen Timeout. Change that to one of the selections (from 15 seconds minimum to 30 minutes max). I chose 30 minutes because I expect to ride, without touching the screen, for longer than the next lowest option which is 10 minutes.

 

[AL_V]

Well done @Chadx finding the "display over other apps" setting!
I turned that off, and did a brief test, and this is the best solution since I no longer have to stop the Stark app.
Regarding the screen going blank on the GPS app, I use the free Polaris ride command GPS app, which has a setting "Keep Phone Awake."
I would expect most, if not all GPS apps have a similar setting.
This is a setting inside the app, not an android setting like the "display over other apps" setting.

I'm in Ohio, and some folks ride all winter, even in ice and snow with spiked tires.
But for me it has to be at least in the 40's, which can happen in any month, though rare in Jan/Feb.
If possible store your bike above freezing til you break it back out in the spring.
Thank you sir!

 

[Chadx]

...
Regarding the screen going blank on the GPS app, I use the free Polaris ride command GPS app, which has a setting "Keep Phone Awake."
I would expect most, if not all GPS apps have a similar setting.
This is a setting inside the app, not an android setting like the "display over other apps" setting.
...
If possible store your bike above freezing til you break it back out in the spring.

My mapping app is set to "Keep phone awake", but it may only keep phone awake if the app is actively doing something. Since I was stationary in the shop, maybe it considers that not active. This afternoon, have to drive into the office so maybe I'll bring the stark phone with and turn on my mapping app and see if the simple act of driving (and my location dot moving across the map) keeps the screen awake. If so, that would allow me to change the Stark Phone display sleep time back down to a shorter duration number rather than 10 or 30 minutes. More experiments.

As for storing in cold, my uninsulated shop gets well below the recommended storage of most lithium batteries (which is usually 0F). This morning, for example, it's a season-typical 11F ambient. Over the winter, we usually spend some time down at the crossroads of F and C (-40F/-40C ambient). I have so many lithium batteries in various chemistries (lithium ion, LiFePO4, etc.) and it's always a challenge and call on where to store them. I trust LiFePO4 more than any other chemistry, but even those I prefer to not store in the house. I keep a tiny heater in my slide-in, pop-up pickup camper, that is stored in the shop over the winter, to keep it 35 - 40F even though it's winterized, so I put most of my other lithium batteries in there to keep them out of the extreme cold. But, a Varg won't fit in the camper! Ha. And I'm not pulling the battery like on my other electric dirtbikes and eMTBs.

Some of my other LiFePO4 batteries that I don't want to move (fishing boat trolling motor batteries), I put small 16w electric warming pads on them and plug it in when it gets brutally cold. Only costs a couple dollars of electricity per month. I bought an custom made electric battery wrap warmer, with thermostat, for the Varg and plan to use that. The frame and skid plate keep it from actually touching the battery in most places, and so the built-in thermostat is never going to let it shut off, but it only pulls 34 watts and even though it can't make contact with the battery case, hoping it will give a little micro climate around it to take the edge off since lows bounce off 0F most of the winter with plenty of trips to -20F to -40F ambient. (Yes we have snowmobiles/snowbikes and no I'm not considering adapting a snowbike kit to my Varg, but I did start this thread for Varg Snowbikes. Varg snowbike discussion).