E-bikes banned at FIM SuperEnduro - - Last minute rule change

[leeo45]

See the linked article for the limited details currently available. Basically the FIM is citing “safety concerns” about e-bikes, despite having previously established the regulations and approved the participation of the Stark Varg. Taddy Blazusiak and the team were already in France for the race when they were told they could not participate.

SpeedWeek: FIM scandal in Lievin

(I thought there was a thread mentioning the SuperEnduro race effort, but I didn't find it with a few searches. If it is out there, certainly OK to merge the threads)

 

[Philip]

What a shame.

Stark Varg ***NOT*** Makes Supercross Debut in Paris

electricdirtriders.com

 

[Philip]

No new information here, but now this is now on YouTube, so it is news and it is also true.

 

[Caryder]

There is a more extensive thread on this on the ThumperTalk forum. They like to speculate so I lost interest.

The peanut gallery thinks e-bikes burst into flames all the time.

E-bikes have their own series in MotoGP so the technology is already demonstrated at the highest level but it’s not a mixed class. The bikes do lap times comparable to moto 3 and they do abbreviated race distance, so not at all competitive with the standard moto gp format. However this year the premier class added a “sprint” race to the Saturday schedule so one would think that’s paving the way to e-bike competition in the premier class.

 

[Swank171]

The only thing going to be lit on fire is the service and aftermarket these dealers and factories love so much.

No more valve adjustments, not more top ends, not more motor grenadine, no more pipes and silencers, no more hp gains from whatever part you need someone to install.

Even for us who build them on our own, we still have to buy the parts, the clutches, clutch baskets….the list is endless.

Think of why 2 strokes were assassinated….emissions??

For those who say they were not put to death, that they were slower…..recall when the size of the 4 stroke motor was allowed to be DOUBLE the size of a 2 stroke…?

There is no replacement for displacement and there is no argument to make this fit except to kill 2 strokes….

Then we had the reason why it was okay to allow an “unfair advantage” for 4 stroke bikes….”emissions and the environment” “2 strokes burn oil and that’s sooo bad”

Okay…..so they killed our 2 smokes for smoking. For the environment.

Let’s think about how expensive the parts maintenance and everything related to those terrible rattle boxes are. Prob 60% more $ you dish out in a year racing 4 strokes…..hmmm, seem odd??

No, it doesn’t seem suspicious because 2 strokes are “bad for the environment, these are welcome changes, 4 strokes are cleaner!”

Let’s fast forward so we can blow a hole in this narrative we have been having shoved down our throats…..

Electric would be an unfair advantage is what was stated by AMA when alta was a threat.

What about emissions?? What about the unfair advantage for the 4 stroke years ago because we need to go green??

You see, this isn’t about emissions….it’s about how much more income the 4 stroke is for the market than a 2 stroke…..that revlimiter is the sound of money….

Stark is being given the same treatment. A big brand executed alta.

Why has only one big brand put out a sorry excuse for an e bike? Honda is years in the making on a bike that isn’t even close to stark….

You can’t say they can’t figure it out….KTM? HONDA? They have all the $$ they need….

They don’t want it. These manufacturers could be innovating and could have electric in the track today but the only companies that are willing are the Alta’s and the starks.

Connect the dots….these e bikes scare the big 5 or 7. Imagine what a factor tent would look like under electric….where’s the exhaust sponsor? Where’s the clutch sponsor? This list goes on….

What about the service department? What happens to all the money?

This is not what the factories want. 100% they don’t want any market share pushed away from them.

Not only is this worst case for them because triumph just dropped a bike so they will have less sales individually, Ducati is Coming and to let stark race and then lose a huge market share to that…??

The FIM and the AMA are bought and paid for. These factories are running the show and I called this.

I remember debating some friends saying they aren’t gonna let this bike race and they said with the rider they just signed they have to….I knew they would rug stark.

I get it…the tech to race moto and supercross isn’t there for battery life…..you can’t tell me that if KTM was testing developing and hiring in that department since they started with the freeride that hasn’t changed that that tech wouldn’t be here. The freeride is a joke and pretty much a heavy surron.

They want to have a market share in the small e bikes but in the premier class these factories are the mafia and are not gonna let this happen easy…..

Don’t get me wrong….I raced my entire life and love to build motors. I just know from racing at such a competitive level how corrupt and terrible the AMA is…..no firsthand experience with the FIM but it has not been hard to figure that one out over the past 10 years.

 

[Chadx]

I see your argument. I'll note, though, there are plenty of aftermarket parts for EV. Besides all the parts that are the same as ICE (wheels, tires, chains, plastics, bars, suspension, etc.), you have battery, motor, controller, throttles, etc. Look at the endless mods available for Surron light bees.

When cars/trucks, motorcycles, ATVs went fuel injected, all the big name carb companies pivoted to fuel injectors and tuning. All the businesses may not be able to pivot like that, but I submit there will be plenty of aftermarket names to sponsor and "hang on the tent" and for us tinkerers to change on our electric dirtbikes.

 

[Swank171]

I see your argument. I'll note, though, there are plenty of aftermarket parts for EV. Besides all the parts that are the same as ICE (wheels, tires, chains, plastics, bars, suspension, etc.), you have battery, motor, controller, throttles, etc. Look at the endless mods available for Surron light bees.

When cars/trucks, motorcycles, ATVs went fuel injected, all the big name carb companies pivoted to fuel injectors and tuning. All the businesses may not be able to pivot like that, but I submit there will be plenty of aftermarket names to sponsor and "hang on the tent" and for us tinkerers to change on our electric dirtbikes.

I get what you are saying but at the highest level. The stark you aren’t upgrading those things…you aren’t in a battery that needs upgrading or a controller you need more out of.

Also you are talking about upgrades you choose….

The market that is the most lucrative is the maintenance market. No oil changes, no top ends, no valves, none of that….

You can’t convince me the industry isn’t scared to lose this.

Ofcourse upgrades like that exist….they exist for 2 strokes but look at the cost of owning a 2 stroke vs a 4 stroke…it’s astronomical. Now compare electric to 4 stroke.

For the average rider that buys a stark level bike the upgrades would be minimal to none and the cost of maintenance is cut drastically.

 

[UKLee]

The only thing going to be lit on fire is the service and aftermarket these dealers and factories love so much.

No more valve adjustments, not more top ends, not more motor grenadine, no more pipes and silencers, no more hp gains from whatever part you need someone to install.

Even for us who build them on our own, we still have to buy the parts, the clutches, clutch baskets….the list is endless.

Think of why 2 strokes were assassinated….emissions??

For those who say they were not put to death, that they were slower…..recall when the size of the 4 stroke motor was allowed to be DOUBLE the size of a 2 stroke…?

There is no replacement for displacement and there is no argument to make this fit except to kill 2 strokes….

Then we had the reason why it was okay to allow an “unfair advantage” for 4 stroke bikes….”emissions and the environment” “2 strokes burn oil and that’s sooo bad”

Okay…..so they killed our 2 smokes for smoking. For the environment.

Let’s think about how expensive the parts maintenance and everything related to those terrible rattle boxes are. Prob 60% more $ you dish out in a year racing 4 strokes…..hmmm, seem odd??

No, it doesn’t seem suspicious because 2 strokes are “bad for the environment, these are welcome changes, 4 strokes are cleaner!”

Let’s fast forward so we can blow a hole in this narrative we have been having shoved down our throats…..

Electric would be an unfair advantage is what was stated by AMA when alta was a threat.

What about emissions?? What about the unfair advantage for the 4 stroke years ago because we need to go green??

You see, this isn’t about emissions….it’s about how much more income the 4 stroke is for the market than a 2 stroke…..that revlimiter is the sound of money….

Stark is being given the same treatment. A big brand executed alta.

Why has only one big brand put out a sorry excuse for an e bike? Honda is years in the making on a bike that isn’t even close to stark….

You can’t say they can’t figure it out….KTM? HONDA? They have all the $$ they need….

They don’t want it. These manufacturers could be innovating and could have electric in the track today but the only companies that are willing are the Alta’s and the starks.

Connect the dots….these e bikes scare the big 5 or 7. Imagine what a factor tent would look like under electric….where’s the exhaust sponsor? Where’s the clutch sponsor? This list goes on….

What about the service department? What happens to all the money?

This is not what the factories want. 100% they don’t want any market share pushed away from them.

Not only is this worst case for them because triumph just dropped a bike so they will have less sales individually, Ducati is Coming and to let stark race and then lose a huge market share to that…??

The FIM and the AMA are bought and paid for. These factories are running the show and I called this.

I remember debating some friends saying they aren’t gonna let this bike race and they said with the rider they just signed they have to….I knew they would rug stark.

I get it…the tech to race moto and supercross isn’t there for battery life…..you can’t tell me that if KTM was testing developing and hiring in that department since they started with the freeride that hasn’t changed that that tech wouldn’t be here. The freeride is a joke and pretty much a heavy surron.

They want to have a market share in the small e bikes but in the premier class these factories are the mafia and are not gonna let this happen easy…..

Don’t get me wrong….I raced my entire life and love to build motors. I just know from racing at such a competitive level how corrupt and terrible the AMA is…..no firsthand experience with the FIM but it has not been hard to figure that one out over the past 10 years.

Totally with you on this, many people do not seem to be aware that if you were to buy all the parts as spare parts to build a complete bike it would cost you around 5 times what it would cost to buy a new bike. That is where they really make there money not new bike sales but they have to sell new bikes so you have one of there bikes to fix/maintain.
There is a lot less high maintance parts on the stark compared to a 4 stroke mx bike but the battery at over £6000 does scare me.

 

[SubSonic]

in the last 4 years of owning a eMC the Only part I have purchased at a shop
has been about 10 tire tubes -

early 1990s a friend of mine opened a E scooter shop in Austin -
was a hard business for him because he was 20 years ahead of the curve -
nobody had Seen or even knew what a e scooter was -

for those people that wanted to buy /build a ebike his shop was the Only game in town -
Now its hard to swing a dead cat and not hit a ebike in Austin -

I was a bicycle builder in austin in the 1990s several of the bike builders i knew
made some high performance ebikes using nicads - went fast just not far -
this was before Online so these builders had to figure it out - was hard -

Now can purchased a complete motor Kit that is plug and play for 2x what a slipper clutch for my gas bike cost -

The Big MC manufactures has Zero interest in making Electric Anything -
their factory is designed to build gas engines and $ell gas engine parts -
I doubt if they ever make and sell a eMC - no profit in it for them -

Big MC will Not play Nice -
will Try to block eMC with Rules and laws -
will put out dis information - ebikes Explode -
( several people that talked to me about my eMC thought they Burned like zeppelin )

On the Bright side there is Millions of gas bikes parked in garages waiting for New life -

death nail for Big MC
If one of these e motor companies makes a motor that is Drop in to gas MC frame
(has Many mounts on motor - extras are cut off to fit bike )
offer Expandable battery with quick change -
big mc will be toast -

Way back
the buggy whip factories that switched to making throttle cables stayed in business

 

[snydes]

Reinforces what we all have been speculating.

 

[Philip]

Corruption is alleged at the 1:44 minute mark.

 

[Philip]

Here is a cautious and politically correct YouTube response from Stark Future:

 

[Michael Anders]

keep in Mind that stark need to play nice and not burn bridges.
It is members that need to loby their respective race category organisations to level the playing field, I dont care if you are for or against e-bikes.
the only way to see if these bikes are capable to to run head to head and if that is then an open class then so be it.
Protectionism is bad for the sport.
If the Ebikes are not capable then sure give them their own class , but dont dream up false rules and false excuses to ban a bike from competition.

Only members of the motocross and motorcycle administering bodies have a say not the public.
So if you are a club member, then get the matter tabled at the AGM (Annual General Meeting)- but if you say nothing then you are just as bad as the dictators running the organisation.

Head to head or not at all but do not ban outright which is exactly what the last minute rules do - Ban electric bikes from competition with ICE bikes but ruling - no cross category racing in FIM and mirroring the ban at AMA sanctioned events.
Any sub regs for affiliate categories need to amend their rules to include E Bikes. but as the latest rules show All E-Bikes are not allowed to race with ICE.
FIM rules as amended don't Ban e- bike per say they just ban mixed competition rule 01.05 categories and .

the amended rules of 15 Jan 2024 prohibit mixed category racing - this is the rule that Stopped Taddy and stark from competing.

2024-0 SuperEnduro Technical Rules V.11/01/2024 | FIM

www.fim-moto.com

 

[Michael Anders]

in the last 4 years of owning a eMC the Only part I have purchased at a shop
has been about 10 tire tubes -

early 1990s a friend of mine opened a E scooter shop in Austin -
was a hard business for him because he was 20 years ahead of the curve -
nobody had Seen or even knew what a e scooter was -

for those people that wanted to buy /build a ebike his shop was the Only game in town -
Now its hard to swing a dead cat and not hit a ebike in Austin -

I was a bicycle builder in austin in the 1990s several of the bike builders i knew
made some high performance ebikes using nicads - went fast just not far -
this was before Online so these builders had to figure it out - was hard -

Now can purchased a complete motor Kit that is plug and play for 2x what a slipper clutch for my gas bike cost -

The Big MC manufactures has Zero interest in making Electric Anything -
their factory is designed to build gas engines and $ell gas engine parts -
I doubt if they ever make and sell a eMC - no profit in it for them -

Big MC will Not play Nice -
will Try to block eMC with Rules and laws -
will put out dis information - ebikes Explode -
( several people that talked to me about my eMC thought they Burned like zeppelin )

On the Bright side there is Millions of gas bikes parked in garages waiting for New life -

death nail for Big MC
If one of these e motor companies makes a motor that is Drop in to gas MC frame
(has Many mounts on motor - extras are cut off to fit bike )
offer Expandable battery with quick change -
big mc will be toast -

Way back
the buggy whip factories that switched to making throttle cables stayed in business

plenty of e-motor kits now to retrofit 250 and 450 twin spar frames like XE4 kit here below and many others

Electro & Co. Inc.

Electric Motocross Powertrain Kits

www.electroandcompany.com

KTM and CF moto have a new eMX, Honda has theirs , Yamaha will have one coming out from the electric trial bike, Kove have one, Reiju have one , Surron has the storm bee and the Chinese have many coming- like the Apollo FRN, and others.
A Spanish company built a rally bike for the Mission 1000 in Saudi Arabia as part of the Dakar. Titanium Frame Electric motor and controller made in spain not China.
E bikes are coming and the Japanese will be last to the table.