Enduro Model Confirmed


Aleksandar13

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Chaconne

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Beagle

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I wonder what they're adjusting to adapt the Varg to enduro, beyond suspensions?
Interesting to see some factory pics, he's also mentioning some other stuff coming so I'm thinking road models (other than Enduro and Supermoto) aren't that far.
 

Chaconne

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But this is not new news...

That the next thing from Stark is an enduro model has been known for a long time.
Well I hope Stark is not relying on the US market and, rather, has a plan for the European, Asian, and South American markets for the enduro model. The US likely won't be the buying power for enduro bikes that it was for the MX version.

The enduro and trail riding motorcycle market in the US has shrunk almost out of existence largely replaced by ATVs and SxSs for the average outdoor OHV enthusiast. And some of KTM's recent collapse shows the limitations of the US market IMHO (probably half those pandemic purchase toys are sitting in garages not used). MX is really the only remaining market left for offroad motorcycles to be sold in any volume in the US as the Japanese have shown.

Beyond limited growth, there is a negativity for eMotorcycles in large portions of the average OHV enthusiast market and this would also be an impediment. One way to overcome market resistance in that segment in the US is with steep cost reductions well below other options but that is not a market Stark has gone for --so far at least.

The average American trail and enduro OHV rider would need an eVersion of something like this for around $5k US to be interested IMHO. I don't see European or American (like Polaris) being able to do that right now at least.
shopping
 

Oded

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I wish the Enduro model would we lighter. That's my only concern with my Alta.
For mx the weight is less noticeable, but for enduro (hard) it's quite a disadvantage.
Picking up the bike on rocky inclines is exhausting.
 

Beagle

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Well I hope Stark is not relying on the US market and, rather, has a plan for the European, Asian, and South American markets for the enduro model. The US likely won't be the buying power for enduro bikes that it was for the MX version.

The enduro and trail riding motorcycle market in the US has shrunk almost out of existence largely replaced by ATVs and SxSs for the average outdoor OHV enthusiast. And some of KTM's recent collapse shows the limitations of the US market IMHO (probably half those pandemic purchase toys are sitting in garages not used). MX is really the only remaining market left for offroad motorcycles to be sold in any volume in the US as the Japanese have shown.

Beyond limited growth, there is a negativity for eMotorcycles in large portions of the average OHV enthusiast market and this would also be an impediment. One way to overcome market resistance in that segment in the US is with steep cost reductions well below other options but that is not a market Stark has gone for --so far at least.

The average American trail and enduro OHV rider would need an eVersion of something like this for around $5k US to be interested IMHO. I don't see European or American (like Polaris) being able to do that right now at least.
shopping

Not sure about road legal Enduro selling less than less than motocross equivalent.

Sales data detailed by model are hard to come by, latest I've found is 2019 for Australia, yet in it you can see that Yamaha sold almost 3 times more WR450F than YZ450F or that Honda sold about 3 times more CRF230F than CRF250R.

IMHO proper enduro bike sales are handicapped by the high maintenance associated with it (compared to trails or more standard road bikes). This is not a concern with the Varg (for it obviously range could become an issue for some use cases) but it's still well suited for hard enduro, enduro or all around fun bike. You'll probably see more Vargs in the street than other enduro bikes.


Also off-road accounted for 25% of KTM sales in Australia, there is a lot of growth potential for road legal Starks.


 
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Chaconne

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Not sure about road legal Enduro selling less than less than motocross equivalent.

Sales data detailed by model are hard to come by, latest I've found is 2019 for Australia, yet in it you can see that Yamaha sold almost 3 times more WR450F than YZ450F or that Honda sold about 3 times more CRF230F than CRF250R.

IMHO proper enduro bike sales are handicapped by the high maintenance associated with it (compared to trails or more standard road bikes). This is not a concern with the Varg (for it obviously range could become an issue for some use cases) but it's still well suited for hard enduro, enduro or all around fun bike. You'll probably see more Vargs in the street than other enduro bikes.


Also off-road accounted for 25% of KTM sales in Australia, there is a lot of growth potential for road legal Starks.


Yes those Australia numbers have been around for some time. And there are US numbers are around somewhere too (I am not going to search) this topic was covered ad nauseum on Thumpertalk a few years back. Even Australia has a fairly vigorous off-road motorcycle culture probably inherited from the Brits. The US simply doesn't have that unfortunately --and motorcycling in general has been on a steep decline with homegrown companies like Harley on the verge of extinction. And the graying of the motorcycle market in the US is just incredible with buyer age creeping up toward the 50s.

Here we have fairly large powersports stores if you go into most of them you will see large floor spaces filled with ATVs, SxSs, Watersports machines and generally there are few dirtbikes in general and almost no enduro bikes or trailbikes (of course there are exceptions and specialty stores). America is a car and 4 wheel culture almost no one uses motorcycles for daily transport.

I agree with you the Stark is well suited for enduro and trail riding and is awesome, and it is all around the best fun bike I have ever owned. The American market is filled with consumers with disposable income and almost single handedly has sustained the entire Japanese motorcycle industry for many years, but those days are long gone. If the market were large and sustainable you would see Japanese and Chinese offerings in volume --they have a huge head start and advantage vs a small European startup but they are offering almost nothing.
 

Chadx

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The enduro and trail riding motorcycle market in the US has shrunk almost out of existence largely replaced by ATVs and SxSs for the average outdoor OHV enthusiast. ... MX is really the only remaining market left for offroad motorcycles to be sold in any volume in the US as the Japanese have shown.


It is likely region specific, but along the rocky mountain front, the dealerships are filled with enduro bikes (race bikes and air-cooled "fun" bikes) compared to motocross bikes. And used versions of the air cooled fun bikes, in all sizes but especially kids sizes, are hard to find and hold their value.

Regarding ATV and UTV, my wife and I ride ATV and we see next to no ATV on the trails anymore. Everyone is in huge $30,000 UTV. Thankfully, we still have a lot of 50" trails where they are not allowed (though some areas have expanded our 50" trails to 60" unfortunately and we constantly see UTV poaching 50" trails and widening them).
My wife and I like to each ride our own machines rather than both of us packing into a "trail car with no car advantages" like enclosed cabin and HVAC. (Yes, I know there are now those UTV as well).

But as for bikes, they are still very popular, a good percentage of dealership showrooms, and there are plenty of mountain single track so great riding that keeps buyers interested and new kids coming up that are riding (though not as much as there used to be).

We would buy electric ATV in a heartbeat if they were competitively priced with ICE ATV ($10,000 - $12,000) but ATV are a tough form factor. They don't have the size to accommodate big enough batteries to give them the range where UTV make a pretty good platform. Polaris has the electric Ranger XP Kinetic which looks great and has great range, but price is offputting. And they did it the economical way by using Zero motorcycles motors and battery packs (similar to what Royal Enfield is doing with the Stark motor and battery pack).

When the Polaris/Zero partnership was first announced in 2020, Polaris promised one new electric machine, in various categories, for the next 5 years. Well, it took them 2 years after that to get the Kinetic out the door (2022) and even though they showed some rough prototypes that same year, so far, no electric ATV, snowmobile, slingshot, or motorcycle (Indian subsidiary) production plans announced. (They stopped making watercraft in 2004).

Will be interesting to see the electric market expand. For me, the main advantage of BEV over ICE for our ATV is when we are doing work around our small property. No noise to talk over, no worry about properly warming up engine and belt for short duration uses, etc. Would be fun to have silent on the trails and not have to do oil/filter changes, front and rear diff lube changes and air filter, but really it's the "around the yard" uses that are really attractive to me.

But that was a huge digression from the Stark enduro model. Ha. But I've made my enduro wish list before. Bigger battery of 7.5kWh or larger no matter the weight (or choices for different sizes when ordering), head/tail/brake lights (better trail safety), plush enduro suspension, softer/wider seat, good sidestand, enduro focused armor/protection. Good to go.
 
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