FIM pushes e-dirt bikes

[Sumik]

Hi guys, it looks like FIM wants to accelerate the expansion of e-dirt bikes and e-dirt bike races. Jean-Paul Gombeaud - the FIM Sports Direktor - is organizing a Roundtable discussion and testing on e-Offroad motorcycles in France on 2nd July - see attached letter. In addition to this meeting there will be an exhibition of e-dirt bikes on 3rd and 4th July at the same place. I wonder if after 4 years somebody will present a bike which would be at least at the same level as our excellent Altas!
According to my information there will be a really strong presence there - representatives of the most FIM countries and the most e-dirt bike producers today like KTM (AT), Yamaha (JP), MXM (D), LMX (FR), Cake (SE), Surron (CN), Tacita (IT), Pohlbock (D). A wide medialization of this event is expected as well.

 

[Philip]

Awesome! It was unlikely the AMA was going to start this, so I am very happy to hear that the FIM is doing this.

It is important to do this early, before the green people shut down all good MX tracks in the world. After that, it would be too late, even if all the bikes are silent and electric.

 

[Mark911]

I’ll showcase a few of my converted bikes if they’ll pay for shipment and travel, lol.

 

[VINSANITY]

You know Mark it’s not that crazy to get in front of the FIM. Maybe the Alta owners could bring forward information on practical use of Ebike in competition settings. There is not a larger knowledge base of users of Ebike technology in the world.

Maybe a door could be opened somehow with FIM and the Alta forum to help them understand electric implementation and possible ways to help with establishing horsepower classes etc.

 

[Philip]

This meeting and MX track exhibition would be incomplete without Alta Motors or Alta owners representation.

Remember, 2-3 years ago they had some MX race in Italy (Maggiorra??), where they had an electric bike class. We thought we could bring one Alta there and win the class, lapping the entire field. But they wrote the rules so that only some electric-assisted bicycles were allowed. Full-sized dirt bikes were not welcomed. The organizers probably thought they didn't exist. I do not know who won that e-bike race, but I do know that nobody cared.

But this time we have Sur-Ron Storm Bee and a few other boutique full-size aspiring MX bike manufacturers. Zero doesn't count. KTM will only throw their full weight into full-size MX bikes once they make something that can beat the Alta and ICE bikes on price/profit and performance. Maybe they could express what kind of bikes they would want to build if the racing classes and format were clearly defined.

Unfortunately, Alta Motors is dead. Could a few hundred of Alta owners serve in an advisory function with no political or financial clout?

I think this is very possible. We have been early adopters of electric MX bikes. We will become early adopters again, once something similar to Alta shows up at motorcycle dealerships.

 

[Judaslefourbe]

But they wrote the rules so that only some electric-assisted bicycles were allowed. Full-sized dirt bikes were not welcomed. The organizers probably thought they didn't exist.

Or KTM told them to write the rules that way. Been done before...

 

[Sumik]

I'm going to be there. I'll let you know.

 

[Philip]

I'm going to be there. I'll let you know.

Feel free to tell them that you are representing 924 electric MX bike owners. We want to buy and race full-size dirt bikes that are at least as fast and capable as our Alta bikes. They must be able to compete directly with gas bikes. Nothing less would do.

 

[C5tor]

Feel free to tell them that you are representing 924 electric MX bike owners. We want to buy and race full-size dirt bikes that are at least as fast and capable as our Alta bikes. They must be able to compete directly with gas bikes. Nothing less would do.

I also want reverse gear, gyro-stabilized auto-wheelie, and a cup holder. You know, while we are asking for stuff...

 

[Sumik]

Feel free to tell them that you are representing 924 electric MX bike owners. We want to buy and race full-size dirt bikes that are at least as fast and capable as our Alta bikes. They must be able to compete directly with gas bikes. Nothing less would do.

It would be an honour to present the opinion of the members of the Alta forum. The question is how many of us do agree to what you wrote above. I do absolutely. We are definitely not 924. I would guess 400? I don't know but we are for sure the most numerous group of users of electric dirt bikes designed for racing. What about to organize a questionnaire to this topic within our forum?

 

[snydes]

It would be an honour to present the opinion of the members of the Alta forum. The question is how many of us do agree to what you wrote above. I do absolutely. We are definitely not 924. I would guess 400? I don't know but we are for sure the most numerous group of users of electric dirt bikes designed for racing. What about to organize a questionnaire to this topic within our forum?

Sounds like a great idea!

 

[Philip]

It would be an honour to present the opinion of the members of the Alta forum. The question is how many of us do agree to what you wrote above. I do absolutely. We are definitely not 924.

Speaking as an Alta owner, not as an AOF admin, I think that, if you are at that meeting, then you can say whatever you think the most true statement is.

Our forum has 924 members, about a half of whom currently own Alta or similar electric bikes, and the rest are/were curious enough to register.

Probably about 40 members race electric bikes completely, at this time against ICE bikes, and, I am assuming, want to have a fair chance to win any race without being placed in a separate electric-only class.

Many of us would buy electric bikes and ride them in the woods or in private backyards regardless of which e-bike rules and racing classes the FIM creates.

To help out @Sumik, I am welcoming everyone to voice their ideas here, or join him in France and voice their opinion in front of the FIM.

 

[VINSANITY]

I think electric motocross bikes should be allowed to race in the 450 class without any restrictions - think open class like the 2 stroke 500’s.

The concept is an electric bike can be made more powerful than a gas bike but that is at the expense of range. Right now I doubt an Alta could have enough range to finish an outdoor moto but can in a super cross setting. In a few years with the Tesla 4160 cell and other battery advances an electric bike could directly compete on power and range. I think putting to many restrictions will limit development. When 4 strokes were allowed they got a HP advantage over two strokes so this is no different in my opinion.

One other item is an electric rider should be allowed to use multiple bikes so that a freshly charged one can be used in different motos so that races are not missed or DNF due to incomplete charging.

 

[Philip]

I think electric motocross bikes should be allowed to race in the 450 class without any restrictions - think open class like the 2 stroke 500’s.

Completely agree! Bring back the Open Class!!!

The concept is an electric bike can be made more powerful than a gas bike but that is at the expense of range.

Power vs. range/weight/cost.

I think putting too many restrictions will limit development.

Exactly! Do not limit the cost either. Let me market decide what to buy and what not to buy. An expensive electric bike is still cheaper to own and ride than a cheap gas bike.

 

[Philip]

@Sumik -- What happened at that meeting? Could you please post an update? Thank you.

 

[Sumik]

The FIM e-Dirt Bike Meeting took place in Saint Chamond in France on 2nd July. About 60 people from FIM headquarters, country FIM authorities (mainly Europe) and some e-dirt bike producers took part in. The FIM representation was quite strong – Antonio Alia Portela – Director Motocross Commission, Dominique Hebrard -Technical Coordinator, Jean-Paul Gombeaud – FIM Sports Director who organised the meeting, and many others. There were also representatives of the producers there but none of the big 5 with their bikes. Only French KTM was present with Freerides and the e-alternates to 50 cc bikes. There were several companies already producing e-dirt bikes like Surron, Kuberg, Qulbix, Pohlbock, Cake, Ampera, BHR there and some others which are still in development phase - MXM, LMX - and several producers of electric pedaleds.

The main discussed topic was which format of the races of e-dirt bikes is the right one. There were several suggestions like Four cross format or 4 laps format, etc which might be attractive for the riders, spectators and TVs as well.

An interesting project FIM E-XPLORER 2022 series was presented. It should promote the e-dirt bike racing all over the world but it has nothing to do with racing of the e-dirt bike community.

I tried to persuade the responsible people that they should lay down rules which enable the competition of electric dirt bikes with combustion engine ones in motocross and enduro racing. The only country FIM authority which agreed without any exception was the French FFM. They confirmed that they would fully open all motocross and enduro classes for electric motorbikes.

I heard many more or less (rather less) relevant reasons from the others why this is not possible: No tools how to assign the electric motorbikes to the present classes and categories, what happens if somebody crashes, if he runs out of battery, if the bike blows up, not enough performance, can't hold the whole race, it’s not possible letting F1 monoposts racing with standard cars, etc..

From my point of view it’ll be still a long way to reach a full opening of motocross and enduro races to motorbikes with alternate drives. The good news is that there are some big countries (France) which support the idea of common racing. This can be a good inspiration for the others.

 

[#76]

Thank you very much for the report back Sumik!.

For both this reply back to the thread and most for your time and commitment to go and be there on our behalf.

Its very sad that there was no presence of the major manufactures..... apart from KTM-France.

Thanks again.

 

[rayivers]

Thank you very much for the report back Sumik!.
For both this reply back to the thread and most for your time and commitment to go and be there on our behalf.
Its very sad that there was no presence of the major manufactures..... apart from KTM-France.
Thanks again.

+1 - much appreciated!