General first solid state battery demonstrator motorcycle

[Theo]

Some of you may know that there has been a series named MotoE in which they raced electric sportsbikes and that Ducati has provided their V21L bikes for the latest years.
Well, that series has gone on hiatus but Ducati has still made a demonstrator for solid state batteries:

It is also the first test vehicle from the Volkswagen group equipped with a solid state battery.
The cells used are the QSE-5 B, having an energy density of 301 Wh/kg: more than the Molicel P60B.
They intend to test it on racetracks.
One thing that I find appealing for high performance use like MX is that apparently those solid state cells work well when warm and should give way less overheating problems.

 

[Beagle]

That's cool to see Ducati keeping on with its electric mobility department, this is much more significant for the industry that the end of MotoE.

However, this "solid state" prototype fuss is quite disappointing honestly. They say these cells might become commercial reality in 5 years yet the energy density at 301 Wh/kg is barely up to actual 21700 cells.

Molicel P50B is at 260 Wh/kg (likely similar to EX/MX1.2), P60B is at 280 Wh/kg, M65A is at 325 Wh/kg.

Solid state is still a long way from production, very hard to scale up and keep it profitable. I mean if it's not better than a standard cell like 21700 it would need to be cheaper and I don't think that's realistic at the moment.

Solid state will have its use, will have it's moment, but that's still pretty far.

 

[Chaconne]

That's cool to see Ducati keeping on with its electric mobility department, this is much more significant for the industry that the end of MotoE.

However, this "solid state" prototype fuss is quite disappointing honestly. They say these cells might become commercial reality in 5 years yet the energy density at 301 Wh/kg is barely up to actual 21700 cells.

Molicel P50B is at 260 Wh/kg (likely similar to EX/MX1.2), P60B is at 280 Wh/kg, M65A is at 325 Wh/kg.

Solid state is still a long way from production, very hard to scale up and keep it profitable. I mean if it's not better than a standard cell like 21700 it would need to be cheaper and I don't think that's realistic at the moment.

Solid state will have its use, will have it's moment, but that's still pretty far.

I don't think the Chinese/Asian producers are that far off. Their vehicle markets will require better performance across climates, faster charging, better safety, and SS brings that.

It is not just under heat conditions either, current wet tech has limits in cold conditions too and most of the SS tech is much more performant in cold conditions, where big markets still reside.

Plus, most of the current designs of SS are much faster charging and much safer. I agree, production will be an issue but I think that is something that will be overcome once the volumes inch up a little more.

 

[Beagle]

I agree, production will be an issue but I think that is something that will be overcome once the volumes inch up a little more.

I think of it the other way round, making great progress at lab scale but the bottleneck remains scaling up production (output, rate of QC failure, cost).

 

[Karinshi]

5 years minimum and i dont think we see this on Stark Future products...

This is what Anton Wass has to say about SS:

 

[Chaconne]

5 years minimum and i dont think we see this on Stark Future products...

This is what Anton Wass has to say about SS:

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It is funny how much Wass tends to sound like Musk. I understand they have to sell products to buyers that fit the profile of the current tech but that market (at least in the US) is highly segmented and very limited. And I don't think the dirtbike market in almost any geography is an especially good indicator of markets anyway --as it is an extremely narrow segment. The broader adoption of E Motorcycles has been abysmal in the US at least. One of the key reasons has been the limitations of the battery tech and this has also been a factor in the overall market size limits on EVs in the US in general too.

And at least for the market here you don't even have to look at the US itself you can look at Japan's OEMs general slow adoption of EV and E tech in general (Japan is essentially the "Detroit" for America now). They understood their largest and most lucrative market better than many Americans and far better than non-Americans like Musk.

Even after the success of hybrids like the Prius, the success had an adoption cap. Cost, range, safety, ease of use, and environmental reliability/variability all play a part in that equation, and --in my view at least-- wet tech will probably never be able to tick all those boxes for the American market that is.