Go Go Charger, other chargers, adapters


privateer703

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Altoona, PA
Wow...that is a lot of options. Let's say instead of the gas powered tow vehicle charging the 12-48VDC battery bank you have a small generator (maybe one not big enough to handle the full load of charging). Do you have an idea of required size of the battery bank balanced with a generator for rapid charging? For example, with a small 2000 watt gen you'd need X number of 100 Ahr 12V batteries.
 

Redwolf

My dog thinks I'm cool
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Brinnon, Wa.
Looks like you have described the ultimate all situation charging solution, how large is the forklift required to move that?
 

TonyWilliams

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San Diego, California USA
Looks like you have described the ultimate all situation charging solution, how large is the forklift required to move that?

Well, my forklift has a giant 48V battery, so we can just add that in there, too!

Obviously, not every method is needed. For instance, I wouldn’t use a generator or a petroleum tow vehicle.

I also wouldn’t need solar, or 12-48 volt batteries.
 

Redwolf

My dog thinks I'm cool
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Brinnon, Wa.
But you have done an excellent job of capturing every most likely charging scenario. I'm excited to see this much interest in developing alternative charging solutions.
 

TonyWilliams

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San Diego, California USA
Wow...that is a lot of options. Let's say instead of the gas powered tow vehicle charging the 12-48VDC battery bank you have a small generator (maybe one not big enough to handle the full load of charging). Do you have an idea of required size of the battery bank balanced with a generator for rapid charging? For example, with a small 2000 watt gen you'd need X number of 100 Ahr 12V batteries.

That’s easy enough to figure out. We need about 120% of the 5.8kWh battery to offset charger inefficiencies (about 85%).

So, one full charge of the bike requires:

7kWh = 120% * 5.8kWh

Then, we need to know how long the 2000w generator will be running (the Honda 2000w generator in the North American market puts out about 1.4kW continuous @ 120V * 13A):

7kWh = 5 hours * 1.4kW

Now, let’s add in the 12-48 volt charger inefficiency of 85%:

8.4kWh = (1 / 85%) * 7kWh

Now, let’s calculate the actual 2000w generator run time to replace the 5.8kWh in the Alta bike:

6 hours = (8.4kWh) / (1.4kW generator output)

I’d probably want enough 12 volt batteries to do at least one full charge, and then let the generator run all afternoon charging them back up:

700 amp/hours = 8.4kWh required / 12 volts

So, about 7 deep cycle 12 volt batteries at 100a/h minimum.

NOTE: I didn’t calculate inverter losses from the batteries to the Alta “fast charger”... need slightly more batteries.
 

Speedkills

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Location
Nederland, CO
I didn't realize you would always need an inverter and to go to AC, even with Chademo stations. Can you explain why easily? I know little about electrical so was surprised when you said that as I kind of figured the whole point was to have a bums telling the station what dc voltage to output as it varied charge to prevent the losses (And weight) of going Dc to Ac to Dc.
 

TonyWilliams

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San Diego, California USA
I didn't realize you would always need an inverter and to go to AC, even with Chademo stations. Can you explain why easily? I know little about electrical so was surprised when you said that as I kind of figured the whole point was to have a bums telling the station what dc voltage to output as it varied charge to prevent the losses (And weight) of going Dc to Ac to Dc.

No, not with CHAdeMO. We could plug that right into the bike... DC to DC. I didn’t put that on the chart.
 

TonyWilliams

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San Diego, California USA
I didn't realize you would always need an inverter and to go to AC, even with Chademo stations. Can you explain why easily? I know little about electrical so was surprised when you said that as I kind of figured the whole point was to have a bums telling the station what dc voltage to output as it varied charge to prevent the losses (And weight) of going Dc to Ac to Dc.


F972A988-7BD9-4671-BD18-28660646A7E8.jpeg
 

TonyWilliams

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San Diego, California USA
So...explain to me how your going to get the OBC on the SM to communicate with the L1 or L2 chargers? Below is an older Diginow setup, but it has the CAN box:

https://diginow.it/images/charger.jpg

I don’t work with those guys, and I don’t care what they have on their website. I do think Brandon (who runs the place) is a real nut job. He actually went out of his way to attempt to get me BANNED from the Zero Motorcycle forum. He is NOT an engineer. He’s just a hack and a punk, pure and simple. His “people skills” are lacking, and customer service is a joke. People buy his garbage because he is the only game in town for the Zero... but, that’s not always going to be the case. Please don’t ask me to compare or benchmark their junk to anything that we do.

If the ALTA bike is using CAN (and I’ve learned already that the bike only has two CAN busses; throttle and everything else), then the work is a non-event. We can and will get things communicating with each other.

For our CHAdeMO compliant kits (JdeMO™ brand name), we have designed, built and sold hundreds of circuit boards (right here in SoCal... not China) and all the programming is ours. We have been building these products for four years... and we ship them all over the world.

CHAdeMO communicates with the vehicle via CAN messaging.


7BE78E3C-5C44-4D71-BB0D-6E182EFF3A7E.jpeg

Installing our JdeMO™ kit on the 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV (with Tesla drivetrain):

6DCFAF59-5D6B-4FDF-9968-BAC9A2C43BE6.jpeg

This is a 2008-2011 Tesla Roadster that I installed our JdeMO™ equipment in Japan.

1F7ACB94-DADC-4B5F-86E5-6DC6B7AB4AC2.jpeg
 

TonyWilliams

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San Diego, California USA
That's what I was hoping. That seems like the kind of thing I could keep in my backpack while I am riding my EXR around town.

The CHAdeMO inlet should be mounted on the bike. It will pull up to about 44 amps at 2C, and that “play-toy” connector that ALTA designed is not going to do the job.

11kW = 44A * 250V
11kW = 31A * 354V

There is PLENTY of room for the CHAdeMO inlet in the “air box”.

EC35277C-DF21-4CEE-8665-C2105AFC9BA4.jpeg
 

Rashid510

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South San Francisco, CA
If the OBC accepts AC power (the SM bike has a NEMA 5-15P, correct?), then again, non-event.

Mount a J1772 inlet, and add some simple electronics.

Is it that simple? Hooking up a J1772 inlet with a handshake box to a 110V plug aka a NEMA 5-15P (fancy name).

Also. The Diginow example was an example of an idea. Not something to publicly rant about. You got issues with companies and people, go take it with them.
 

TonyWilliams

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San Diego, California USA
Is it that simple? Hooking up a J1772 inlet with a handshake box to a 110V plug aka a NEMA 5-15P (fancy name).

Also. The Diginow example was an example of an idea. Not something to publicly rant about. You got issues with companies and people, go take it with them.

We can provide the J1772 adaptor that will plug into the NEMA 5-15P.
 

Speedkills

Well-known member
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Location
Nederland, CO
I'm been out for a while getting a knee replacement and now that I'm back I see Tony's account is deleted and this has made no progress. Bummer.
 

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