Here is my major rub with Stark.

[wfopete]

The bike, warranty and customer service is great. But when that warranty is gone and the bike needs powertrain work (invertor/motor/battery/VCU) we are kind of screwed. On a ICE bike if a engine component fails (ignition, crankshaft, piston, gaskets, etc.) owners can go in and replace the failed component. ICE bikes have factory and owners manuals, videos and articles on how to go about almost any repair. Aftermarket parts are also readily available. If owners are not comfortable turning the wrenches they have factory dealerships and independent shops to take the a bike for repairs. OTOH, Stark owners have dealers only and my understanding is most dealers don't have any more resources than owners. I understand popping open a battery pack is not the same as a ICE but I haven't seen anyone go into a Varg powertrain and if/when something fails the only recourse owners have is to replace the failed part/s with expensive assemblies. It's like having worn piston rings and the only option is to buy a engine assembly. I shied away form modern four strokes due to the expense of rebuilding the engine after a few years of service. I really thought by this time in the game folks who are familiar with E-bikes would be producing videos on how to go about diagnosing and repairing components of these bikes. I also figured the aftermarket would be spooling up with some powertrain replacement parts.

I'm not concerned with chassis work but a charger is $800, a wiring harness $400, powertrain unit $3500 and battery $3000. I've heard it said the motor will outlive the chassis and the battery can be fully cycled 5000X (which is great as long as they don't fail) but some components Stark doesn't even show a replacement part for; like the VCU. Currently, you can't buy a motor or invertor separately and I don't know what's in the guts of the battery case but there is more to fail in there than just batteries. Like I said, I enjoy my Varg but if I don't see more parts/service and information available at the user level I may cut my losses and sell before the warranty expires. Is anyone else a bit concerned on their ability to repair or even pay for parts for their Stark?

 

[DaveAusNor]

Yea, I think I'll likely do the same. Sell before warranty. Because if something like what happened to you with that corroded connector means I have to buy a brand new battery, I'd be real upset.

Thankfully I'm pretty sure being in Norway means I get a 5 year warranty due to consumer protection laws. I'd have to confirm this.

 

[UKLee]

The bike, warranty and customer service is great. But when that warranty is gone and the bike needs powertrain work (invertor/motor/battery/VCU) we are kind of screwed. On a ICE bike if a engine component fails (ignition, crankshaft, piston, gaskets, etc.) owners can go in and replace the failed component. ICE bikes have factory and owners manuals, videos and articles on how to go about almost any repair. Aftermarket parts are also readily available. If owners are not comfortable turning the wrenches they have factory dealerships and independent shops to take the a bike for repairs. OTOH, Stark owners have dealers only and my understanding is most dealers don't have any more resources than owners. I understand popping open a battery pack is not the same as a ICE but I haven't seen anyone go into a Varg powertrain and if/when something fails the only recourse owners have is to replace the failed part/s with expensive assemblies. It's like having worn piston rings and the only option is to buy a engine assembly. I shied away form modern four strokes due to the expense of rebuilding the engine after a few years of service. I really thought by this time in the game folks who are familiar with E-bikes would be producing videos on how to go about diagnosing and repairing components of these bikes. I also figured the aftermarket would be spooling up with some powertrain replacement parts.

I'm not concerned with chassis work but a charger is $800, a wiring harness $400, powertrain unit $3500 and battery $3000. I've heard it said the motor will outlive the chassis and the battery can be fully cycled 5000X (which is great as long as they don't fail) but some components Stark doesn't even show a replacement part for; like the VCU. Currently, you can't buy a motor or invertor separately and I don't know what's in the guts of the battery case but there is more to fail in there than just batteries. Like I said, I enjoy my Varg but if I don't see more parts/service and information available at the user level I may cut my losses and sell before the warranty expires. Is anyone else a bit concerned on their ability to repair or even pay for parts for their Stark?

I have said this many times and with good reason, I have seen many parts fail on my stark but what also concerns me is most of the replaced parts are no better that the one that failed. The gen 2 powertrain seems to have plenty of issues so not a big improvement on the gen 1.

"The bike, warranty and customer service is great."
Bike when running is impressive no doubt but I still think we are a tad faster on the ICE bikes, there are times clutch and gear selection just help that bit.
Warranty and customer service can be good but can be useless, More on the useless side recently I get the impression it is a fob off/ stalling for time until the warranty is up.

So If we have a problem after the warranty is up we have to get on to stark to diagnose it from there end, This could get interesting when we are told we have to buy a new powertrain which does not solve the problem.

I also am considering selling my stark whilst it still has 6 months warranty left but I think I would do well to get £7000 for it.

 

[Erwin P]

So far customer support has been great for me.

However i feel the same and at the same time don't.

What fails on an EV motor are the bearings (wich any idiot can replace) of the windings go bad. The latter i would have a shop rewinding. They do sell the countershaft and all parts related.

But you can also look at it this way. When a 2 stroke fails (complete seizure, not uncommon) it's not just a piston. It's the piston, cylinder wall (new nicaseal has to be put in there), the bigend, crankshaft bearings while you're at it. Last time i did everything i could myself and still ended up at €1800 (and still have old engine cases, gearbox, clutch etc etc). Lets also not forget that was a fair amount of work.
If the motor on the Stark fails for some reason you buy a replacement, sure it costs €3500, but replacing it is a matter of 1 evening and could be done by any idiot following youtube video's.
When that happens you have an entirely new powertrain wich is a spareparts bin of its own. I think quite some shops will be interested in that just to see how it works and how they can make a business case around that.

I think as soon as the Stark runs out of warranty there will be people overhauling the motors, but for now there is just no reason to because you just get a new part. You will see overhauled motors appear i guess. If you swap your motor for an overhauled one and that costs you €1500 you still have a bargain compared to overhauling a 2 stroke, let alone a 4 stroke.

I would also like to see the same happening with battery's but i think less shops will go into that. My first battery went bad for calibration issues. Stark said they could fix/recalibrate that, but i just got a new battery instead.
So at some point i expect those battery's to re-enter the market.

 

[Beagle]

So far customer support has been great for me.

However i feel the same and at the same time don't.

What fails on an EV motor are the bearings (wich any idiot can replace) of the windings go bad. The latter i would have a shop rewinding. They do sell the countershaft and all parts related.

But you can also look at it this way. When a 2 stroke fails (complete seizure, not uncommon) it's not just a piston. It's the piston, cylinder wall (new nicaseal has to be put in there), the bigend, crankshaft bearings while you're at it. Last time i did everything i could myself and still ended up at €1800 (and still have old engine cases, gearbox, clutch etc etc). Lets also not forget that was a fair amount of work.
If the motor on the Stark fails for some reason you buy a replacement, sure it costs €3500, but replacing it is a matter of 1 evening and could be done by any idiot following youtube video's.
When that happens you have an entirely new powertrain wich is a spareparts bin of its own. I think quite some shops will be interested in that just to see how it works and how they can make a business case around that.

I think as soon as the Stark runs out of warranty there will be people overhauling the motors, but for now there is just no reason to because you just get a new part. You will see overhauled motors appear i guess. If you swap your motor for an overhauled one and that costs you €1500 you still have a bargain compared to overhauling a 2 stroke, let alone a 4 stroke.

I would also like to see the same happening with battery's but i think less shops will go into that. My first battery went bad for calibration issues. Stark said they could fix/recalibrate that, but i just got a new battery instead.
So at some point i expect those battery's to re-enter the market.

Honest question, have electric motors in Altas or KTM freeride required much maintenance? I think some Atla are still running fine, years after the demise of the manufacturer?

 

[Lost]

I think as soon as the Stark runs out of warranty there will be people overhauling the motors, but for now there is just no reason to because you just get a new part. You will see overhauled motors appear i guess. If you swap your motor for an overhauled one and that costs you €1500 you still have a bargain compared to overhauling a 2 stroke, let alone a 4 stroke.

This.

At the moment there is no reason for aftermarket support. As Stark just sends a complete replacement. So, who at home is going to dig around in one while they are still 10-15k bikes and potentially lose their warranty.

That said, I will sell my EX when it comes to the end of its warranty, as dealing with customer "support" has been an absolute joke so far, so dread to think what their attitude will be like when they don't have to do anything...

 

[Erwin P]

Honest question, have electric motors in Altas or KTM freeride required much maintenance? I think some Atla are still running fine, years after the demise of the manufacturer?

Not that i know of. And if so they last way longer than 2 or 4 stroke MX bikes. Sure 3500 is a lott. But so is 3x 1800...

 

[wfopete]

The word that keeps coming back to me is SERVICEABILITY. That is the little elephant in the room that will keep getting bigger & bigger. Parts have to be available as well as diagnostic equipment and repair procedures. Sure the motors seem tough but we are still in the first two year window of the bike being released and all it takes is some parts supplied by a vendor that start to fail prematurely yet after the warranty is up. A 2 stroke complete seizure, not being uncommon? That's total BS. There are literally thousands of blue, white and orange bikes out there with hundreds of hours on the engines with only normal maintenance done to them. My orange bike went over 400 hours with only normal service and a $50 piston ring replacement. Yes, be an idiot, put straight gas in the thing and you'll probably get a complete seizure but you will also be able to repair it yourself or a local shop can because parts and knowledge of how the engine works is well known. Stark did a good job of using proven chassis components that are readily available and serviceable without going through the factory; in fact that was one selling point of the bike. You can't say that about the powertrain components.

The other trait about electrical components is that you pretty much don't get any warning of a failure. One day it's working and the next day it's not. ICE bikes generally give you signals that things are not right. It might be a high idle, metal in the oil, a unusual noise from the engine, a fouled plug or low power. In any case you get a generally warning that things are a miss and as a bonus that warning often will give you clues as to what's wrong. You also can check compression and perform a leak down test to help determine the health of an engine. Currently there is no way to "measure" the state of health of your Stark (that I know of). You can't perform a amp draw, resistance test, voltage drops, continuity test or anything else to determine the SOH. Wouldn't it be cool if Stark could do this and send you a monthly report of the bike's "Health"?

Hypothetical scenario: It's one year from now and your warranty has expired. The lights on the handlebar are not happy and "something" is wrong as the bike will not power up or maybe it will only charge to 60%. Does anyone here have any idea how to go about determining what is specifically wrong with the bike, let alone repair it? No. So what happens? You contact Stark but your warranty is up and they refer you to a dealer. The dealer has a two week backlog of bikes in their shop but to check out your bike requires 1 hour diagnostic fee of $100. Two weeks later the shop sends you a text. The tech says the battery needs to be replaced. You ask what's wrong with the battery and your told it's not the batteries per se that are bad, it's the little switch circuit in the battery case that failed and it's not available as a separate part from Stark and besides the dealer is not authorized to take apart the battery. Or perhaps you do a little online research and find out there is a independent outfit that luvs Starks and offers a better circuit switch. Even better is that taking apart the battery and replacing that circuit can be done for under $150 if you have the correct equipment and manual. But you don't have that equipment or manual. Fortunately that outfit that sells the switch and will repair it for you; just send them the battery and for $500 plus shipping they will repair it for you with only a 2 week turn around time. There are better and worse scenarios out there but I'll let your imagination go wild on that.

 

[Oded]

As an owner of an Alta for 7 years I can say that the electric motors and inverters are highly reliable. The battery may cause problems. Very few motors and inverter problems in this forum

It does not necessarily mean that the these components will be as reliable in the Starks, but an educated guess would be that electric motors and inverters are not prone to problems.

 

[rayivers]

As an owner of an Alta for 7 years I can say that the electric motors and inverters are highly reliable. The battery may cause problems. Very few motors and inverter problems in this forum

It does not necessarily mean that the these components will be as reliable in the Starks, but an educated guess would be that electric motors and inverters are not prone to problems.

+1, for sure.

 

[wfopete]

I guess some of us will all wait for a year or two and see how it works out.

 

[Ross Shafer]

I bought a plated dirtbike late last year in prep for doing nor Cal BDR and am just not using my Stark on my neighborhood pasture anymore. I've been trying to sell mine with 1 year left on warranty for a few weeks.....not easy, big drop in resell value....ugh! Anyone want a perfect low hour 1st gen 60hp Stark?

 

[Philip]

The bike, warranty and customer service is great. But when that warranty is gone and the bike needs powertrain work (invertor/motor/battery/VCU) we are kind of screwed. ...

I'm not concerned with chassis work but a charger is $800, a wiring harness $400, powertrain unit $3500 and battery $3000. I've heard it said the motor will outlive the chassis and the battery can be fully cycled 5000X (which is great as long as they don't fail) but some components Stark doesn't even show a replacement part for; like the VCU.

So far, all the bikes that were sold are still under warranty. There is no reason for Stark to start offering small internal parts if folks would most likely drag their bikes to the dealer or email Stark, who has been sending entire replacement batteries, inverters, chargers, and motors if something failed. I think this problem does not require a solution just yet.

As an owner of an Alta for 7 years I can say that the electric motors and inverters are highly reliable. The battery may cause problems. Very few motors and inverter problems in this forum

It does not necessarily mean that the these components will be as reliable in the Starks, but an educated guess would be that electric motors and inverters are not prone to problems.

+2.

 

[UKLee]

Seems more parts available on this site here in the UK than on the stark site STARK VARG PARTS
Sure in the past I have seen a vcu on there but can not see one now, you can get an inverter though.

 

[Theo]

Seems more parts available on this site here in the UK than on the stark site STARK VARG PARTS
Sure in the past I have seen a vcu on there but can not see one now, you can get an inverter though.

In the Stark Future website they are listed among the official dealers and from their YouTube channel, whose videos I've watched from time to time, they give me the vibe of cool people. Seems like they can be trusted!
They also sell the motor case and the gasket between it and the inverter.
I suppose that, being dealers, they have access to those components that maybe could become available to everybody on the Stark's site when the first warranties wil expire, which wll be soon, since I've just checked that TCMB371's unboxing video was posted in May 2023.