Is it possible to add electrical accessories to a Starg Varg?

[AbnormalWrench]

So waiting on my order for a new Varg EX, and emailed Stark, wondering what the low voltage capacity is, so I could add some accessories. They confirmed the low voltage system is 12v, however they wouldn't tell me what the capacity was, and basically said adding accessories isn't recommended. I just wanted some heated grips and some extra lighting, something I do for all the bikes I own, because I tend to ride in cold weather. I can't find a wiring diagram for Varg's either. Are there any 12v fuses? Are all the circuits transistor protected and shut off if additional loads are added?

I sure hope that isn't the case.

 

[Aleksandar13]

So waiting on my order for a new Varg EX, and emailed Stark, wondering what the low voltage capacity is, so I could add some accessories. They confirmed the low voltage system is 12v, however they wouldn't tell me what the capacity was, and basically said adding accessories isn't recommended. I just wanted some heated grips and some extra lighting, something I do for all the bikes I own, because I tend to ride in cold weather. I can't find a wiring diagram for Varg's either. Are there any 12v fuses? Are all the circuits transistor protected and shut off if additional loads are added?

I sure hope that isn't the case.

Heated gloves would be your best bet and the lighting can be on a battery pack ! Easy simple and no warranty issues

 

[AbnormalWrench]

After finding some other somewhat related threads on the subject related to the MX, it looks like a lot of people were hoping the EX would offer some 12V circuits to use for such things. This is so absurd. I currently ride a Zero FX in the woods, it has a 20 amp 12V system that has no problem running whatever you want. I was debating between the Starg Varg EX and the YZ-EMX conversion - which has a 30 amp optional DCDC converter - way more than I would need. How is it possible to have this huge capacity battery and they decided to give zero access to it to run anything? It would be like an EV car that has no power ports or phone charging - what a waste!

I'm seriously thinking about canceling my order. What a dumb design.

 

[AbnormalWrench]

I asked for clarification, but they seem to be slow to respond now. I guess they didn't like me pointing out the Zero FX is a far superior design in this category.

 

[Aleksandar13]

After finding some other somewhat related threads on the subject related to the MX, it looks like a lot of people were hoping the EX would offer some 12V circuits to use for such things. This is so absurd. I currently ride a Zero FX in the woods, it has a 20 amp 12V system that has no problem running whatever you want. I was debating between the Starg Varg EX and the YZ-EMX conversion - which has a 30 amp optional DCDC converter - way more than I would need. How is it possible to have this huge capacity battery and they decided to give zero access to it to run anything? It would be like an EV car that has no power ports or phone charging - what a waste!

I'm seriously thinking about canceling my order. What a dumb design.

Ride one before you take any decisions like this !! It’s an amazing bike so I wouldn’t be put off by that but that’s me

 

[AbnormalWrench]

Ride one before you take any decisions like this !! It’s an amazing bike so I wouldn’t be put off by that but that’s me

I'm sure it is fun to ride - that is the whole reason I pre ordered it. That doesn't mean it isn't badly designed or there aren't other options available.

 

[AL_V]

I asked for clarification, but they seem to be slow to respond now. I guess they didn't like me pointing out the Zero FX is a far superior design in this category.

Every bike (almost any product) is a compromise.
The Zero FX has advantages in some areas, and I assume the Stark has some other advantages or you would not have placed an order/deposit.
The original $100 deposit we made 3 years ago was non-refundable.
Here are the current terms:
Refunds: You acknowledge and agree that, after placing your order below and signing the Purchase Agreement or accepting your financing offer, you are ineligible for any refund. Before then, you can request a refund by emailing support@ekhodealer.com.

 

[Erwin P]

It really is a shame it doesn't have it, but there is no serious competition at the moment.
A Zero FX isn't even on the same planet.

I would a little battery behind the front number plate.

 

[Beagle]

I'm curious about the comparison of Varg EX and Zero FX?

I can see one advantage for the Zero, that's the onboard charger, huge if you use it to commute or as a part time street bike.

What do you see besides that?

 

[electricsheep]

I would think that riding an EV Bike in cold weather would drastically shorten the battery life, especially if using 12vdc and or 5vdc accessories. I ordered my EX to be ridden as a dirt bike. Not a dual sport. Having the ability to go on the highway to Starbucks for a quick show and tell is a bonus. I just got to ride the MX version yesterday and was very pleased! Glad I ordered the bike and now I can't wait for it to show up. The owner of that bike rode 31 miles of hard single track and had 18% battery left. I rode 34 miles of hard single track that same day and had no gas left in me! So perfect battery range in my humble opinion.
I love my Beta 300R but I was super impressed by the fact that I could hear what the tires were doing and all the other little sounds that you don't hear with an exhaust braaping under you. And yes, I also love the smell of 2 stroke and the sound of a good dirt bike motor under me. I bet I will be picking the Stark over the Beta most every time I ride though, that test ride was that good!

 

[AbnormalWrench]

It really is a shame it doesn't have it, but there is no serious competition at the moment.

*at the moment

That is definitely true. I don't think that will last very long. They are throwing away money if they don't address this issue as the competition starts catching up.

A Zero FX isn't even on the same planet.

It is inferior in overall performance, no doubt. It is plenty fast trail riding, which is mostly what I do. Additional power does you no good in that realm. Personally, I'll take heated gear over the additional 35HP while trail riding in the winter.

I would a little battery behind the front number plate.

I seriously find it offensive that people spending $14K+, think this is a reasonable compromise. That is absurd.

 

[AbnormalWrench]

I'm curious about the comparison of Varg EX and Zero FX?

I can see one advantage for the Zero, that's the onboard charger, huge if you use it to commute or as a part time street bike.

What do you see besides that?

I think the important distinction is the EX is a street bike, as is the Zero FX. I think it would be smart for Stark to add a 110v charger to the EX, or at least offer a smaller, cheaper 110v mobile charger, but this would probably be a US only thing. The Zero makes a great commuter bike, but if your commute is long, you need to charge both at your house and your work, which would require at least 2 chargers for the Stark, whereas the Zero can charge regardless where it is, given enough time. My commute is pretty short, so that isn't a big issue. You don't need a fast charger if you are working a standard 8 hour shift.

And as I already pointed out, the Zero can be modified to your hearts content, which means, as I prefer to modify all my bikes, heated gear, heated grips and additional lights, front and rear, louder horn. I like staying comfortable and I like not getting ran over by other drivers, and I highly recommend those mods if you care about that also.

 

[AbnormalWrench]

I would think that riding an EV Bike in cold weather would drastically shorten the battery life, especially if using 12vdc and or 5vdc accessories.

Required qualifier* battery chemistry can change cold weather performance a lot, and I won't pretend I'm an expert on the batteries in question

But that being said, lights, heated gear, phone charging, etc, are pretty much irrelevant. My average ride takes about 2 hours, where I consume 6kWh of battery over 35 miles. Just as an example, over that time, my aftermarket headlight consumes 60Wh of power. So if I turned off my headlight for that same ride, 6000/35 = 171W/mile, 171/120W = .7 miles. IE, If I had turned off my headlight for the entire ride, I would have made it 35.7 miles instead.

In other words, accessories barely matter. The motor consumes way more.

As far as winter vs summer, it is around 20% loss of range in the winter for my Zero. Granted, we don't deal with super cold temps here. 30-40 degrees F is what I'm talking about, compared to 70-80 degrees F in the summer. I have ridden in colder temps, but it didn't change that ratio much.

As for street battery range, the average speed and peak speed is what determines range. The Zero can go about 65 miles IF you keep it under 40mph. It is all about speed. At 55mph, max is 50 miles. 60mph, max 45 miles. 70mph, max 30 miles.

The range is linear to speed. Bikes are very bad when it comes to aerodynamics.

I expect the EX to be around 20% better numbers than that, but it will be equally as bad aerodynamically.

 

[AbnormalWrench]

I should probably note, there is a huge difference between range from street and dirt. Surprisingly, the type of tires involved don't seem to matter much. I often commute with off road knobby tires, and it doesn't effect my range much on the street.. I also have a set or rims with street tires, which I used to use frequently, so I could compare range given different tire types. But my circumstances changed to where I had a short commute and it wasn't worth swapping out the tires anymore.

The EX, I will definitely be buying extra rims and running street tires, because that is the only place you could feasibly use all that power.

 

[Erwin P]

*at the moment

That is definitely true. I don't think that will last very long. They are throwing away money if they don't address this issue as the competition starts catching up.


It is inferior in overall performance, no doubt. It is plenty fast trail riding, which is mostly what I do. Additional power does you no good in that realm. Personally, I'll take heated gear over the additional 35HP while trail riding in the winter.



I seriously find it offensive that people spending $14K+, think this is a reasonable compromise. That is absurd.

I'm not so sure. The competition (Enduro bikes) also don't have a big enough 12V system to do those things you like. People often try, but with drained battery's or burned coils as a result.

The Zero is not on the same planet, power is good enough though. It's the overal frame and suspension that's just poor, especially compared to the Stark. Power is hardly what you pay for in Enduro.

It all depends on what your goal for this bike is.
It's not a streetbike as you mention in this tread. It's an enduro made street legal to do competitions that require crossing streets. As i said, ICE bikes in class also don't have ample power for anything else than core functions.

I saddly also own a Zero DS (wich shares a lott with the FX). But it's setup and build quality is at the level of a Chinese pittbike. When good weather comes around i will sell it ASAP.
If low performance in both power and suspension does for you that's great, but then you could do better deals than the Stark.

 

[AbnormalWrench]

I'm not so sure. The competition (Enduro bikes) also don't have a big enough 12V system to do those things you like. People often try, but with drained battery's or burned coils as a result.

I have no idea how you determined what the overall enduro bike category 12v system availability is. Not sure if you know that can be easily adjusted for whatever amperage you desire to select. Literally every EV vehicle has that and most of them are pretty decent amperage. Nothing special about this technology.

The Zero is not on the same planet, power is good enough though. It's the overal frame and suspension that's just poor, especially compared to the Stark. Power is hardly what you pay for in Enduro.

Already agreed with that. I'd still rather have heated gear than have slightly better suspension. I won't yuck your yum.

It all depends on what your goal for this bike is.
It's not a streetbike as you mention in this tread. It's an enduro made street legal to do competitions that require crossing streets. As i said, ICE bikes in class also don't have ample power for anything else than core functions.

I saddly also own a Zero DS (wich shares a lott with the FX). But it's setup and build quality is at the level of a Chinese pittbike. When good weather comes around i will sell it ASAP.
If low performance in both power and suspension does for you that's great, but then you could do better deals than the Stark.

Sorry to hear you aren't enjoying your Zero. I'll buy your Chinese pittbike for $50.

 

[Erwin P]

With enduro i mean all the full blood Enduro bikes incluiding ICE. With the Stark being the only EV in class as far as i know (maybe the EXE 880 as well). The Surrons/Zeros are not.
Those enduro bikes don't have the generator capacity for heated grips etc. Most will hardly charge a phone. I know people who run heated grips but they pull the plugs on their headlight when doing so.
I don't know how much heavier/bulkier a DC/DC would get when it needs to do extra duties on an E bike. I would like the option as well, but for 99,99% of intended owners it's a non issue since it's a competition style bike. And specsheet warriors are the main buyers so if they can save 0,5kg on this they will.

And "slightly" better suspension doesn't quite cut it. Market leading vs that garbage Zero used (ridden it and worked on it) is not even a comparison. I've owned Quingqi, Skyteam and multiple Chinese knockoffs but never been so disappointed by built quality and handling.

If you can live with how a Zero rides and is built i very much recommend to not spend the big money on the Stark and just get the cheapest Chinese E bike you can get.

 

[AbnormalWrench]

With enduro i mean all the full blood Enduro bikes incluiding ICE. With the Stark being the only EV in class as far as i know (maybe the EXE 880 as well). The Surrons/Zeros are not.
Those enduro bikes don't have the generator capacity for heated grips etc. Most will hardly charge a phone. I know people who run heated grips but they pull the plugs on their headlight when doing so.

As I already stated, the Zero FX has 20 amp capacity for the 12V system. I personally wouldn't put Surrons in the same category, however they are easily modified. If there isn't a plug and play option for them, I have no doubt there is a DIY option for additional 12V capacity.

As for ICE....pretty much all electric start bikes have 400W capacity. That is the norm. It has been 20 years since I've owned a magneto ignition, kick start bike that had no 12V system capacity. Boy, I don't miss those days.

I don't know how much heavier/bulkier a DC/DC would get when it needs to do extra duties on an E bike. I would like the option as well, but for 99,99% of intended owners it's a non issue since it's a competition style bike. And specsheet warriors are the main buyers so if they can save 0,5kg on this they will.

Just search DC to DC converters on ebay. They are small and cheap. And those are generic modules. Obviously, if you were making them inhouse, they would be better

And "slightly" better suspension doesn't quite cut it. Market leading vs that garbage Zero used (ridden it and worked on it) is not even a comparison. I've owned Quingqi, Skyteam and multiple Chinese knockoffs but never been so disappointed by built quality and handling.

If you can live with how a Zero rides and is built i very much recommend to not spend the big money on the Stark and just get the cheapest Chinese E bike you can get.

I would love to see how well someone on a Varg could keep up with me in the woods on my Zero. I wouldn't feel bad if I lost, but I don't think I would lose by much. But whatevs. You seem way more insecure about this than me.

 

[rayivers]

I would love to see how well someone on a Varg could keep up with me in the woods on my Zero.

I had tons of fun on mine too, for years - if it had more power, I'd still be riding it. I'll be selling it this spring, though - really need the space..