Is there a list of Error Codes anywhere out there?

[Upinsmoke57]

At the risk of asking another stupid question I am at a loss for what to do on a holiday weekend when Stark is not available. I am color blind in the yellow/green range of colors and misinterpreted a green/red error code for a yellow software update. Doing the update button hold sequence does nothing but hard shut down the bike. From a hard shut down the bike will start in gear!! This nearly got me as I did twist the throttle a little and it lurched forward. Holding the red power button does not put it in idle but will put the bike into standby. In standby mode the color sequence is green for 3 seconds then a quick red flash. I have been so careful to not ever pressure wash the bike and I keep things clean and dry. 16 hours total. Worked perfectly on the previous ride then I come home to this. Any ideas? Why doesn't the manual show the error codes? I'm really appreciating a carbureted 2 stroke about now! Things have become too complicated.

 

[FYR]

I'm feeling your pain. That sense of helplessness is exactly what I fear the most about this bike. I'm already sketched-out about the electronics sensitivity and I haven't even taken delivery of the bike yet

 

[UKLee]

At the risk of asking another stupid question I am at a loss for what to do on a holiday weekend when Stark is not available. I am color blind in the yellow/green range of colors and misinterpreted a green/red error code for a yellow software update. Doing the update button hold sequence does nothing but hard shut down the bike. From a hard shut down the bike will start in gear!! This nearly got me as I did twist the throttle a little and it lurched forward. Holding the red power button does not put it in idle but will put the bike into standby. In standby mode the color sequence is green for 3 seconds then a quick red flash. I have been so careful to not ever pressure wash the bike and I keep things clean and dry. 16 hours total. Worked perfectly on the previous ride then I come home to this. Any ideas? Why doesn't the manual show the error codes? I'm really appreciating a carbureted 2 stroke about now! Things have become too complicated.

We went to an enduro practice day yesterday, 3 riders we took 3 ICE (gas) bikes easy no need to take a spare bike and leave it in the van whilst we were out riding which is never a good idea lots of thieving scum about simple no issues.
Since getting the stark every time we have taken that but you come the evening before go to put it on charge and more than once there is a problem with in and no chance of getting a reply from stark as to how to possibly fix the problem, the same can be said about when you get to an event we have had problems getting it going.

There are also things you never think about like fully charging the bike the evening before an event only to find the event has been cancelled so you have a fully charged battery with no way of running it down, it could be a few weeks before you can get to use the stark again but that is not good for the battery.
As we all know tipping fuel in to our ICE bikes is easy and takes seconds so you can go out when you like with the stark you have to sit around waiting for it to charge.

Had many issues with the stark and had to change the power unit under warranty and another time the BCU all taking my time to diagnose then fit new parts the other option is have it sitting at a dealers for what can be a very long time. Then there is the list of things STILL not fixed.

We had started taking a spare ICE bike with us to events so if the stark plays up again no one is left without a bike but this weekend we decided to leave the stark at home, no one missed it, the longer we have had the stark the more we see the ICE bikes are actully quite practical except when we want to run around our track ih the field behind the house close to houses then it has to be electric bikes but apart from that I think these ICE bikes could catch on

 

[Upinsmoke57]

It's an amazing machine but I honestly see the unfortunate end for this company if washing the bike with a hose results in a week of "can you send us a video?" Every company has growing pains but I fear Stark is going the way of every successful product, their "amazing" customer service is going to get quickly diluted. With KTM you would really not expect to get a response from anyone but the difference is there are thousands of repair shops that can help or you can fix the problem yourself with a little research and elbow grease. Here because the problems are almost entirely out of the average joe's abilities to fix in their garage we are at the mercy of their response team. If this continues there will be tons of Starks being sold with less than 50 hours for lower and lower prices. That momentum of negative publicity catches on like wild fire. They need to take this very seriously.

 

[Upinsmoke57]

Update from Stark on what that green flashing red light sorta means. The answer is unclear but they just sent out a new switch.


"Thank you for reaching us again. Your control switch needs to be replace because is generating an electrical false contact most likely because of water, dirt or a hardware failure. It´s not a failure code related behaviour. Due to this we recomend you to avoir riding your VARG until you recieve the new control switch.

Attached is a guide related to ir and you can use the following guidelines to replace it:

Please let us know if there’s anything else we can assist you with.
Best regards,
Stark Future Team"



When asking to confirm what the light sequence means, if its a general error code or specific to the switch this was their reply:


"Hi,

In the previous email we attached a guide on the information that the control switch displays. Are you able to see it? If not, let us know for us to re-send it.

The green/red light on yours is due to a malfunction, it does not mean anything.

Please let us know if there’s anything else we can assist you with.
Best regards,
Stark Future Team"



So if I understand correctly what I am seeing is from a short and not an actual code. Although the rhythm and pattern of the flashing is very consistent. Not sure I believe the light "means nothing."

After contacting the dealer I purchased the bike from they confirmed they have nothing proprietary to diagnose the Starks with. No special list of diagnostic codes. They too have to reach out to Stark and wait for their reply via email.

Lesson to be learned here, if you're gonna invest in new technology keep a backup bike!

 

[Aleksandar13]

Update from Stark on what that green flashing red light sorta means. The answer is unclear but they just sent out a new switch.


"Thank you for reaching us again. Your control switch needs to be replace because is generating an electrical false contact most likely because of water, dirt or a hardware failure. It´s not a failure code related behaviour. Due to this we recomend you to avoir riding your VARG until you recieve the new control switch.

Attached is a guide related to ir and you can use the following guidelines to replace it:

Please let us know if there’s anything else we can assist you with.
Best regards,
Stark Future Team"



When asking to confirm what the light sequence means, if its a general error code or specific to the switch this was their reply:


"Hi,

In the previous email we attached a guide on the information that the control switch displays. Are you able to see it? If not, let us know for us to re-send it.

The green/red light on yours is due to a malfunction, it does not mean anything.

Please let us know if there’s anything else we can assist you with.
Best regards,
Stark Future Team"



So if I understand correctly what I am seeing is from a short and not an actual code. Although the rhythm and consistency of the flashing is very consistent. Not sure I believe the light "means nothing."

After contacting the dealer I purchased the bike from they confirmed they have nothing proprietary to diagnose the Starks with. No special list of diagnostic codes. They too have to reach out to Stark and wait for their reply via email.

Lesson to be learned here, if you're gonna invest in new technology keep a backup bike!

I have washed my bike a few times now and the switch has been ok and from what I read here and with other as the switch failing I guess the answer would be to cover the switch up with a water tight bag when washing to avoid any moisture going inside and having these issues. Yes this is not ideal and you would want a solution that is IP rated . Not sure if the new switches have some coating which makes them IP rated on the inside or not but I know this is what I am going to do from now on.

People have a tendency to complain a lot on the Web and I think Stark is doing an amazing job trying to keep customers happy with their issues, working in design and startup sector myself I feel that people should be more open to these type of issues when they purchase a unique product.

I have had issues with motorbikes not being serviced correctly, rusting and water in frames from reputable manufacturers like BMW and I was left carrying the baby on all occasions due to the small blue print that the solicitors have put together.

So far from what I hear Stark have honoured their warranties amazingly well, some with delays but they have. 2 Years of Warranty is unheard of in the off road industry so I am happy with this. The bike is not perfect but there is no perfect bike , people buy a Yamaha which is reliable and doesn't break and then complain about not having character, others own a Ducati for the bling factor and for the fact that it breaks often so it has character...

I am no electrician but it would be interesting to see if there is an IP rated button array available of the shelf that can be bought for cheap and replace the stock unit if that becomes a bigger issue.

 

[Upinsmoke57]

I ended up taking the switch apart and putting rtv sealant over the solder joints on the back of the pcb as well as a very thin layer around the perimeter of the 2 case halves. I also lubed the o rings thoroughly on the 3 buttons. AND, I shoved a bunch of medium density foam in the top triple clamp where the hole enters the sealed connector box. That absolutely needs a watertight plug up there. I'm still not convinced this issue isn't from water intrusion at the connector area.

My main complaint isn't a bad part or even having to wait without a bike to use. It's more the waiting an entire day for a 1 line automated response and not having a line of solid communication to efficiently diagnose the problem. So on one hand it's great they just shoot a part out but what if that's not it? It was like pulling teeth to even get them to say this wasn't a diagnostic code. I probably have 2-3 paragraphs of begging them to just give me a list of error codes. I of course didn't post all that as it's tedious to read through. And to be totally honest I'm not sure I believe that. Loose connections would lead to erratic behavior or inconsistent results. This was doing the exact same thing over and over. So what worries me is that the days of instant customer service are going to get more diluted as they sell more bikes than they can handle remotely. even the dealer got the feeling the people on the other end of the emails don't really know everything about this bike. Anyone got Anton's cell #

 

[Aleksandar13]

I ended up taking the switch apart and putting rtv sealant over the solder joints on the back of the pcb as well as a very thin layer around the perimeter of the 2 case halves. I also lubed the o rings thoroughly on the 3 buttons. AND, I shoved a bunch of medium density foam in the top triple clamp where the hole enters the sealed connector box. That absolutely needs a watertight plug up there. I'm still not convinced this issue isn't from water intrusion at the connector area.

My main complaint isn't a bad part or even having to wait without a bike to use. It's more the waiting an entire day for a 1 line automated response and not having a line of solid communication to efficiently diagnose the problem. So on one hand it's great they just shoot a part out but what if that's not it? It was like pulling teeth to even get them to say this wasn't a diagnostic code. I probably have 2-3 paragraphs of begging them to just give me a list of error codes. I of course didn't post all that as it's tedious to read through. And to be totally honest I'm not sure I believe that. Loose connections would lead to erratic behavior or inconsistent results. This was doing the exact same thing over and over. So what worries me is that the days of instant customer service are going to get more diluted as they sell more bikes than they can handle remotely. even the dealer got the feeling the people on the other end of the emails don't really know everything about this bike. Anyone got Anton's cell #

I'm with you. I have my call tomorrow with them to see if they can find a fault that I had with mine which I've posted a thread about, the bike is now running and it's all good.. Could have been a few things and I've been lucky thay my dealer is very responsive and happy to help. Hopefully for all of us these things will get sorted out and future parts are better in design and or the community finds solutions to the problems. Would be handy to have diagnostic tool and be able to view stuff inside the ecu like you would on a car and maybe they will progress with this later on where people can access a library of faults with checks that are automated and if all of the automated answers don't work then proceed to getting stark to connect to bike.
Maybe this is a solution but it can only come in time. I'm loving mine and can't wait to ride again..

 

[UKLee]

I have washed my bike a few times now and the switch has been ok and from what I read here and with other as the switch failing I guess the answer would be to cover the switch up with a water tight bag when washing to avoid any moisture going inside and having these issues. Yes this is not ideal and you would want a solution that is IP rated . Not sure if the new switches have some coating which makes them IP rated on the inside or not but I know this is what I am going to do from now on.

People have a tendency to complain a lot on the Web and I think Stark is doing an amazing job trying to keep customers happy with their issues, working in design and startup sector myself I feel that people should be more open to these type of issues when they purchase a unique product.

I have had issues with motorbikes not being serviced correctly, rusting and water in frames from reputable manufacturers like BMW and I was left carrying the baby on all occasions due to the small blue print that the solicitors have put together.

So far from what I hear Stark have honoured their warranties amazingly well, some with delays but they have. 2 Years of Warranty is unheard of in the off road industry so I am happy with this. The bike is not perfect but there is no perfect bike , people buy a Yamaha which is reliable and doesn't break and then complain about not having character, others own a Ducati for the bling factor and for the fact that it breaks often so it has character...

I am no electrician but it would be interesting to see if there is an IP rated button array available of the shelf that can be bought for cheap and replace the stock unit if that becomes a bigger issue.

"rusting and water in frames" Have a look at the taper where the steel frame joins on to the alloy side plates.

 

[jeremyconnors]

At the risk of asking another stupid question I am at a loss for what to do on a holiday weekend when Stark is not available. I am color blind in the yellow/green range of colors and misinterpreted a green/red error code for a yellow software update. Doing the update button hold sequence does nothing but hard shut down the bike. From a hard shut down the bike will start in gear!! This nearly got me as I did twist the throttle a little and it lurched forward. Holding the red power button does not put it in idle but will put the bike into standby. In standby mode the color sequence is green for 3 seconds then a quick red flash. I have been so careful to not ever pressure wash the bike and I keep things clean and dry. 16 hours total. Worked perfectly on the previous ride then I come home to this. Any ideas? Why doesn't the manual show the error codes? I'm really appreciating a carbureted 2 stroke about now! Things have become too complicated.

Also colorblind! These guys have no idea what a pain in the @!#?@!#?@! it is to read the LED's alone. Feel ya, @Upinsmoke57 -- Keep candid; No stupid questions.

 

[jeremyconnors]

I'm feeling your pain. That sense of helplessness is exactly what I fear the most about this bike. I'm already sketched-out about the electronics sensitivity and I haven't even taken delivery of the bike yet

Have to back you up here, @FYR -- helplessness is exactly how it's felt for me getting my bike setup, so far..! Keep advocating for yourself, and Stark, a dealer, or fellow forum member will support problem solving; One way or another, eventually.

 

[FYR]

I ended up taking the switch apart and putting rtv sealant over the solder joints on the back of the pcb as well as a very thin layer around the perimeter of the 2 case halves. I also lubed the o rings thoroughly on the 3 buttons. AND, I shoved a bunch of medium density foam in the top triple clamp where the hole enters the sealed connector box. That absolutely needs a watertight plug up there. I'm still not convinced this issue isn't from water intrusion at the connector area.

My main complaint isn't a bad part or even having to wait without a bike to use. It's more the waiting an entire day for a 1 line automated response and not having a line of solid communication to efficiently diagnose the problem. So on one hand it's great they just shoot a part out but what if that's not it? It was like pulling teeth to even get them to say this wasn't a diagnostic code. I probably have 2-3 paragraphs of begging them to just give me a list of error codes. I of course didn't post all that as it's tedious to read through. And to be totally honest I'm not sure I believe that. Loose connections would lead to erratic behavior or inconsistent results. This was doing the exact same thing over and over. So what worries me is that the days of instant customer service are going to get more diluted as they sell more bikes than they can handle remotely. even the dealer got the feeling the people on the other end of the emails don't really know everything about this bike. Anyone got Anton's cell #

What was the result after taking the switch assembly apart? Any improvement?

 

[Aleksandar13]

"rusting and water in frames" Have a look at the taper where the steel frame joins on to the alloy side plates.

Hi Mate, I was referring to a previous BMW Gs1200 where this was an issue.!

 

[Upinsmoke57]

What was the result after taking the switch assembly apart? Any improvement?

The initial blinking light and not going into neutral, etc solved itself over a few days time. One can only conclude this was a water intrusion issue. After 4-5 days of drying out it seemed stable enough to go ride it again. So the bike worked prior to my sealing the switch. However I would recommend doing some preventative maintenance on the Varg. Including lubing the linkage, blocking the axles as they rust fast, sealing that stupid hole on the upper triple clamp that funnels water down to the connectors, adding a touch of waterproof grease to all bolts except where loctite is needed, di electric grease on the connector pins and check all electrical connections. I also think it might be worth covering the bars when washing the bike from now on. When this thing works it is the best experience on a bike I've ever had. I rode my old 300 XCW for a second yesterday and it feels like a relic. Though I have to be honest I miss the sound of the 2t.

 

[UKLee]

Hi Mate, I was referring to a previous BMW Gs1200 where this was an issue.!

I know you were but the stark has it,



Like this on both sides. This taper has a lot of load on it and the steel part is only thin, it rusting will make it weak how long before we see these failing?
Sent these pictures to stark and they replied....
"The rust in the frame taper comes form the combination of aluminum and iron leads to corrosion, so we advise you to maintain this part with simple grease. We've had no further problems with this part, no breakages or anything else. Our motorcycle meets all safety requirements."

 

[FYR]

I know you were but the stark has it,

View attachment 12609
View attachment 12610
Like this on both sides. This taper has a lot of load on it and the steel part is only thin, it rusting will make it weak how long before we see these failing?
Sent these pictures to stark and they replied....
"The rust in the frame taper comes form the combination of aluminum and iron leads to corrosion, so we advise you to maintain this part with simple grease. We've had no further problems with this part, no breakages or anything else. Our motorcycle meets all safety requirements."

Holy sh*t, I would never have expected to see that happen. Thank you for sharing.

 

[jeremyconnors]

I know you were but the stark has it,

View attachment 12609
View attachment 12610
Like this on both sides. This taper has a lot of load on it and the steel part is only thin, it rusting will make it weak how long before we see these failing?
Sent these pictures to stark and they replied....
"The rust in the frame taper comes form the combination of aluminum and iron leads to corrosion, so we advise you to maintain this part with simple grease. We've had no further problems with this part, no breakages or anything else. Our motorcycle meets all safety requirements."

Yikes! (Immediately gets out grease can ) Yeah, appreciate the detailed share here!!

 

[fsfs]

The initial blinking light and not going into neutral, etc solved itself over a few days time. One can only conclude this was a water intrusion issue. After 4-5 days of drying out it seemed stable enough to go ride it again. So the bike worked prior to my sealing the switch. However I would recommend doing some preventative maintenance on the Varg. Including lubing the linkage, blocking the axles as they rust fast, sealing that stupid hole on the upper triple clamp that funnels water down to the connectors, adding a touch of waterproof grease to all bolts except where loctite is needed, di electric grease on the connector pins and check all electrical connections. I also think it might be worth covering the bars when washing the bike from now on. When this thing works it is the best experience on a bike I've ever had. I rode my old 300 XCW for a second yesterday and it feels like a relic. Though I have to be honest I miss the sound of the 2t.

Among a number of things we manufacture/assemble for the Varg, we used to assemble the map switch for a short while (a month or so). The map switch cable must be relatively thin to pass through the sealing grommet. This means that the individual wires inside the cable are quite thin. They are too thin to properly seal with the blue silicone gasket on the white connector:



Looking closely it is obvious that the OD of the wires is not enough to make a good seal. If water gets in, the blue gasket makes it take a long time for the water to evaporate.

The best way to dry is to carefully pull back the blue gasket, hit it with compressed air, and then a hair dryer. Also hit its mate with air and a hair dryer but avoid removing the mate's gasket unless really required as if you damage it the entire wiring harness needs to be replaced.

Moving the gasket allows air to flow through and evaporate the water:




The map switch assembly is also prone to water ingress. It is also possible to open it, unscrew the PCB and dry it first with compressed air and then a hair dryer. While you are at it you can clean any particles/grit that can cause the buttons themselves to bind.

As a general comment, the bike has a number of issues similar to this that just make the ownership experience poorer than it should be.

 

[Theo]

I know you were but the stark has it,

View attachment 12609
View attachment 12610
Like this on both sides.

I've noticed that, too on the left side and I see that an effective way to improve the situation is to lean the bike to both sides after having washed it, so that it will drip with water faster and therefore dry faster.
I also let it air dry but I use a cloth to speed up the drying process only in that specific point.
Since I've read about the control switch failing, instead of hitting it directly with water i wipe the dirt off of it with my wet hand and rinse the hand after every pass.

 

[Upinsmoke57]

@fsfs. What's your take on any potential side effects from sealing the connectors, pcb, casings with a sealant like rtv silicone? That of course excludes any switch/light surfaces. Does this inhibit or promote long term corrosion? I think preventing water from getting below the upper triple clamp entry point is key. But why not just dab silicone at all entry points if this is a known issue? I already did this to my bike but the fact others aren't talking about this as a solution makes me wonder if I am missing something.