Is there a list of Error Codes anywhere out there?

[UKLee]

To be honest I don't know why you are putting the time in to this because the power button sticks down any way leaving you stranded. Tell stark and they will hopefully send you a new one FOC I have had 3 now. They promised to re design this over a year ago now hopefully when they do they will also make it waterproof.

We have all seen the charger plugs images, that tells you the standards we can expect



fsfs who did these then?

 

[fsfs]

To be honest I don't know why you are putting the time in to this because the power button sticks down any way leaving you stranded. Tell stark and they will hopefully send you a new one FOC I have had 3 now. They promised to re design this over a year ago now hopefully when they do they will also make it waterproof.

We have all seen the charger plugs images, that tells you the standards we can expect

View attachment 12622

fsfs who did these then?

I think some supplier in China but I'm not sure. We didn't ask. They didn't tell.

 

[fsfs]

@fsfs. What's your take on any potential side effects from sealing the connectors, pcb, casings with a sealant like rtv silicone? That of course excludes any switch/light surfaces. Does this inhibit or promote long term corrosion? I think preventing water from getting below the upper triple clamp entry point is key. But why not just dab silicone at all entry points if this is a known issue? I already did this to my bike but the fact others aren't talking about this as a solution makes me wonder if I am missing something.

View attachment 12619

The connectors are supposed to be IP67. If the connectors do not seal that is because of poor wire/cable choice (like improper outer diameter) or poor assembly. This weekend I will post a few photos of possible solutions/aids.

 

[fsfs]

The connectors are supposed to be IP67. If the connectors do not seal that is because of poor wire/cable choice (like improper outer diameter) or poor assembly. This weekend I will post a few photos of possible solutions/aids.

OK, here goes...

First a disclaimer. We a couple test bikes for development purposes. We don't regularly take them out, get them muddy, and wash them. So we have not had water ingress issues because we simply don't put them under that kind of stress. If we did expose them to "water ingress stress" i would not be surprised if we had issues. Personally I would do what I describe below. I just want to state I haven't actually done it -- want to be transparent.

It was very important for the wiring to be "visually clean" to present a look of "premium". As an example you have a little enclosure behind the number plate where the connectors for the map switch, docking station, and throttle are. This enclosure does nothing for sealing; its purpose is to give a "tidy" look.

For this example I will use a throttle:



Notice that there is heat shrink tubing covering the wires from the end of the sheath all the way up to the connector. This is not good because it bends the wires inward at the blue gasket and reduces the effectiveness of the seal. A common way for water to get into connectors like these is at the rear gasket. The heat shrink can be cut away making the individual wires visible. After the the heat shrink is removed the wires can be straightened improving the rear seal. This also allows us to carefully pull back the gasket using a small flat head screw driver.

It is now possible to use silicone to seal this, but I wouldn't recommend that unless you have experience doing this because if it ends up on the pins it will ruin the connector. If you do use silicone make sure to use silicone that does not have acetic acid as it will ruin the contacts; use silicone that is compatible with electronics. My advice is to use dielectric grease.

At time 55 seconds we have an IP rated connector where moisture penetrated through the rear of the connector. This round connector has a rear silicone gasket seal just like the white connectors on the varg. Notice for that proper seal integrity the seal around every wire must be good. IMO, even if this seal isn't perfect it will do a good job of keeping the dielectric grease inside and the grease itself solves the moisture problem.

Note that dielectric grease is NON conductive! But that won't prevent a good electrical connection between the pin and socket:

So in short:

1) Carefully pull back blue gasket and apply grease to the rear of the connector. Push the blue gasket back.
2) Apply some grease to the contacts themselves (as seen in the video).
3) Re-mate the connectors after grease has been applied to both sides. If the connector will not fully mate then there is probably too much grease inside and we have a "hydraulic lock" situation; remove a bit of grease with a tooth pick and try again.

If you are nervous about step #1 skip it. Some grease is better than none.

In short, we give up on using the connector seals to keep the water out. We use the connector seals to keep the grease in. We rely on the grease to protect from water.

I also wouldn't hesitate to try out grease inside the map switch itself (on the PCB even).

Let me repeat. I didn't do this myself. It is what I would do if I had this issue. Also, this area behind the number plate is not the only water ingress weakness the varg has.

 

[Beagle]

Anyone using compressed air after washing their bike? I know KTM riders obsessed with that to avoid issues with electronics, would make sense for the Varg as well, at least on the "weak points". That and using sensible water pressure, more garden hose than cleaning your front porch.

 

[Aleksandar13]

OK, here goes...

First a disclaimer. We a couple test bikes for development purposes. We don't regularly take them out, get them muddy, and wash them. So we have not had water ingress issues because we simply don't put them under that kind of stress. If we did expose them to "water ingress stress" i would not be surprised if we had issues. Personally I would do what I describe below. I just want to state I haven't actually done it -- want to be transparent.

It was very important for the wiring to be "visually clean" to present a look of "premium". As an example you have a little enclosure behind the number plate where the connectors for the map switch, docking station, and throttle are. This enclosure does nothing for sealing; its purpose is to give a "tidy" look.

For this example I will use a throttle:

View attachment 12630View attachment 12631View attachment 12632

Notice that there is heat shrink tubing covering the wires from the end of the sheath all the way up to the connector. This is not good because it bends the wires inward at the blue gasket and reduces the effectiveness of the seal. A common way for water to get into connectors like these is at the rear gasket. The heat shrink can be cut away making the individual wires visible. After the the heat shrink is removed the wires can be straightened improving the rear seal. This also allows us to carefully pull back the gasket using a small flat head screw driver.

View attachment 12633

It is now possible to use silicone to seal this, but I wouldn't recommend that unless you have experience doing this because if it ends up on the pins it will ruin the connector. If you do use silicone make sure to use silicone that does not have acetic acid as it will ruin the contacts; use silicone that is compatible with electronics. My advice is to use dielectric grease.

At time 55 seconds we have an IP rated connector where moisture penetrated through the rear of the connector. This round connector has a rear silicone gasket seal just like the white connectors on the varg. Notice for that proper seal integrity the seal around every wire must be good. IMO, even if this seal isn't perfect it will do a good job of keeping the dielectric grease inside and the grease itself solves the moisture problem.

Note that dielectric grease is NON conductive! But that won't prevent a good electrical connection between the pin and socket:

So in short:

1) Carefully pull back blue gasket and apply grease to the rear of the connector. Push the blue gasket back.
2) Apply some grease to the contacts themselves (as seen in the video).
3) Re-mate the connectors after grease has been applied to both sides. If the connector will not fully mate then there is probably too much grease inside and we have a "hydraulic lock" situation; remove a bit of grease with a tooth pick and try again.

If you are nervous about step #1 skip it. Some grease is better than none.

In short, we give up on using the connector seals to keep the water out. We use the connector seals to keep the grease in. We rely on the grease to protect from water.

I also wouldn't hesitate to try out grease inside the map switch itself (on the PCB even).

Let me repeat. I didn't do this myself. It is what I would do if I had this issue. Also, this area behind the number plate is not the only water ingress weakness the varg has.

Thank you for the write up and suggestion. I have a question or two if you don't mind. Since the connectors seem to have issues only when washing the bike ( that's my experience) and not from riding in the rain...
1.Could we seal the box underneath the number plate with silicone so water doesn't go in there, even closed cell epdm foam could be cut to fit inside and act as a second barrier before water or moisture gets to the 3 plugs.
2. Washing the bike and covering the switch on the handle bar with a bag so water doesn't get to it might be the best prevention?
3. How difficult do you think it is to find a better switch that can work with the Varg? Would this be a solution?! ( There must be 1000's of switchea on the market, I guess it's a case of wiring) and would there be a better ip rating like ip68?!

 

[Aleksandar13]

Anyone using compressed air after washing their bike? I know KTM riders obsessed with that to avoid issues with electronics, would make sense for the Varg as well, at least on the "weak points". That and using sensible water pressure, more garden hose than cleaning your front porch.

Some people use a dryer as well for the bikes which would probably work. I can't see how you would get the mud out from the bottom part of the bike without a pressure washer... The frustration for me I think it's the case around the front sprocket... Seems to be to tight around the sprocket... Racetorx make one now which looks far better and might solve the issue.

 

[fsfs]

Anyone using compressed air after washing their bike? I know KTM riders obsessed with that to avoid issues with electronics, would make sense for the Varg as well, at least on the "weak points". That and using sensible water pressure, more garden hose th

Thank you for the write up and suggestion. I have a question or two if you don't mind. Since the connectors seem to have issues only when washing the bike ( that's my experience) and not from riding in the rain...
1.Could we seal the box underneath the number plate with silicone so water doesn't go in there, even closed cell epdm foam could be cut to fit inside and act as a second barrier before water or moisture gets to the 3 plugs.
2. Washing the bike and covering the switch on the handle bar with a bag so water doesn't get to it might be the best prevention?
3. How difficult do you think it is to find a better switch that can work with the Varg? Would this be a solution?! ( There must be 1000's of switchea on the market, I guess it's a case of wiring) and would there be a better ip rating like ip68?!

Water ingress can be both "acute" and "chronic" let's say. With acute being it won't work after being pressure washed, and chronic being it works but gradually degrades from corrosion. I would avoid pressure washing around critical areas even if you pack the connectors with grease. I wouldn't declare the connectors problem free wrt to rain, etc, because the bikes are generally new and should last several years. How the connectors will hold up after a number of years remains to be seen.

If you must pressure wash i think covering known problem components is a good idea.

Be careful with pressure washing.

 

[FYR]

Water ingress can be both "acute" and "chronic" let's say. With acute being it won't work after being pressure washed, and chronic being it works but gradually degrades from corrosion. I would avoid pressure washing around critical areas even if you pack the connectors with grease. I wouldn't declare the connectors problem free wrt to rain, etc, because the bikes are generally new and should last several years. How the connectors will hold up after a number of years remains to be seen.

If you must pressure wash i think covering known problem components is a good idea.

Be careful with pressure washing.

@fsfs - I (for one) am truly impressed and thankful for all this experience and knowledge you have shared with us. Please, keep it coming.

 

[Theo]

Anyone using compressed air after washing their bike?

Personally I don't like the idea because compressed air pushes things into gaps. As I've written, I prefer to tilt the bike to both side so that the water will fall down and IMO if there is some specific spot that you want to dry it's better to suck the water with a syringe; it should work pretty well even if the dangerous needle is removed. Yes, it's a weird piece of advice but I think it should work and if you are embarassed to do it in the parking lot of the track you can do it later at home .

OK, here goes...
[...]
In short, we give up on using the connector seals to keep the water out. We use the connector seals to keep the grease in. We rely on the grease to protect from water.
[...]
Let me repeat. I didn't do this myself. It is what I would do if I had this issue. Also, this area behind the number plate is not the only water ingress weakness the varg has.

Probably the safest connector to try experimenting with is the one of the docking station, as its possible failure won't make the bike unusable and the wiring harness is available as a spare part.

 

[Upinsmoke57]

I tried using Pam cooking spray on the fender areas as to eliminate the need for a pressure washer. We ride in a area with nasty clay. It would take 30-45 minutes of spraying to clean the bike. I am impressed with how well the cooking spray works for releasing caked on mud/clay. Less washing means less water to potentially harm the bike. Just cover your rotors when spraying.

 

[jeremyconnors]

I started spraying Pam cooking spray on the fender areas as to eliminate the need for a pressure washer. We ride in an area with nasty clay. It would take 30-45 minutes of spraying to clean the bike. I am impressed with how well the cooking spray works for releasing caked on mud/clay. Less washing means less water to potentially harm the bike.

Great tip!