Mileage and Range Expectations

[Philip]

Should we just start a sub-forum specifically called “Range Anxiety”?

A safe space, member-only, where nobody would critique your bike for its... shortcomings. Then, in that sub-forum, we could also share what the best antidepressant drugs are that help to cope with this type of anxiety.

 

[synics]

This was my riding spot today. Some days it's straight up Baja with some massive jumps!

 

[C5tor]

A safe space, member-only, where nobody would critique your bike for its... shortcomings. Then, in that sub-forum, we could also share what the best antidepressant drugs are that help to cope with this type of anxiety.

“Do your rides not last as long as they used to? Are your riding partners disappointed in your decreased endurance? Perhaps you are experiencing something called Premature Electro-depletion. Our councilors here in the Range Anxiety Forum can help with a wide range of practical advice, biased opinions, cheerful empathy, and mild mockery. We can help talk you down from your precipice of inadequacy, and point out the fun you will have in your thrilling (albeit brief) riding activities. We can also offer sound advice on good techniques to lengthen your stay in the saddle by practicing good self control and achieving zen-like oneness with you and your equipment, not focusing on the final climactic destination but just enjoying the pleasant ride. We can also offer suggestions on equipment and other battery-powered devices to help enhance the enjoyment for both you and your riding partners in the event of premature depletion. Everyone can still have fun (at least in the short term!) It’s not the length of the ride, it’s the charge you get while getting there. We’re here to help.”

 

[synics]

“Do your rides not last as long as they used to? Are your riding partners disappointed in your decreased endurance? Perhaps you are experiencing something called Premature Electro-depletion. Our councilors here in the Range Anxiety Forum can help with a wide range of practical advice, biased opinions, cheerful empathy, and mild mockery. We can help talk you down from your precipice of inadequacy, and point out the fun you will have in your thrilling (albeit brief) riding activities. We can also offer sound advice on good techniques to lengthen your stay in the saddle by practicing good self control and achieving zen-like oneness with you and your equipment, not focusing on the final climactic destination but just enjoying the pleasant ride. We can also offer suggestions on equipment and other battery-powered devices to help enhance the enjoyment for both you and your riding partners in the event of premature depletion. Everyone can still have fun (at least in the short term!) It’s not the length of the ride, it’s the charge you get while getting there. We’re here to help.”

BWAAAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!! that's hilarious dude, well written!

 

[enjoythesilenc]

You won't know until you try it. 20 mph isnt tight trails unless you are super fast. If you are roosting sand in the opposite direction constantly, you are wasting battery. elevation and speed changes kill battery.

I got 30-35 miles per charge yesterday on typical east coast mining country singletrack. I think thats about 170 Wh per mile, which is the consumption unit we should all learn to recognize and share notes on. (my surron burned 130 Wh/mile. same trail) I'm not fast but i'm probably smoother than the guys i keep up with

Keep your gas bike and hope you find a niche use for your new alta. If you enjoy the niche rides better, adjust your venues or expectations.

 

[privateer703]

Big thanks to @Rashid510 and @snydes helping me procure and install a new battery module to fix my code 36. After I got the bike back home I had to take it out for a spin so I could charge it up and balance cells. To add to the range discussion, I rode the bike 18.9 miles on mostly rocky trails, averaging 10.6 mph in map 2 and used just a hair over 50% battery. I'm really light on the throttle, but was taking the trail as fast as I was comfortable with. Here is the info from my gps so you know that this is not a flat ride.

 

[synics]

I rode it yesterday for 4 miles in a field. Used like 30% of the battery. OMG. Nod good. : (

 

[Matt]

Rode a hairscamble today. 6 mile loop. I did two laps and then pulled off to charge. Had about 25%SOC remaining. Charged for about 45 minutes up to 66% SOC and then went and did 2 more laps. I barely made it back on the last lap. I was using all maps for this race and was frequently in map 4. There was a number of really fast sections (max speed was 54.1 based on my GPS) and there was a lot of mud and slop where there was no traction. This course encormparated one of the local MX tracks into the loop as well so it was a mix of MX, woods single track, and wide open farmers fields. Very fun. Wish I could have done a few more laps but still fun. I was racing in the Amateur class which runs with the expert and vet classes in the afternoon. Got a nice holeshot (cheating when it's a dead start lol). Some really great hill climbs also.

 

[synics]

Rode a hairscamble today. 6 mile loop. I did two laps and then pulled off to charge. Had about 25%SOC remaining. Charged for about 45 minutes up to 66% SOC and then went and did 2 more laps. I barely made it back on the last lap. I was using all maps for this race and was frequently in map 4. There was a number of really fast sections (max speed was 54.1 based on my GPS) and there was a lot of mud and slop where there was no traction. This course encormparated one of the local MX tracks into the loop as well so it was a mix of MX, woods single track, and wide open farmers fields. Very fun. Wish I could have done a few more laps but still fun. I was racing in the Amateur class which runs with the expert and vet classes in the afternoon. Got a nice holeshot (cheating when it's a dead start lol). Some really great hill climbs also.

what kind of generator are you using?

 

[Matt]

what kind of generator are you using?

A preditor 8750

 

[privateer703]

I think it might be because where I ride is mostly rocks, so I'm very conscience about keeping any wheel spin to a minimum and rocks make for great traction.

 

[synics]

Ok so I just did my first real ride tonight on the MXR, tight sandy single-track, mostly map 2, rode 12 miles in 52 minutes and went all the down to 30% left. I'm a B level rider, average speed 12 mph. I am SERIOUSLY DISAPPOINTED in those numbers. This means that this isn't a viable bike for any type of riding that's with a group or at a larger place. This bike is really only good for after work juants or quick outings. Anyone who claims they entered this in a race for an hour is totally full of crap. NO WAY will this bike last an hour at race speed. If I rode it at race speed I would probably get a half hour out of it tops. People that are claiming 4 hour rides and such must be moving at a snail's pace on firm ground the entire time. I'm not believing it for a second.

 

[Matt]

Ok so I just did my first real ride tonight on the MXR, tight sandy single-track, mostly map 2, rode 12 miles in 52 minutes and went all the down to 30% left. I'm a B level rider, average speed 12 mph. I am SERIOUSLY DISAPPOINTED in those numbers. This means that this isn't a viable bike for any type of riding that's with a group or at a larger place. This bike is really only good for after work juants or quick outings. Anyone who claims they entered this in a race for an hour is totally full of crap. NO WAY will this bike last an hour at race speed. If I rode it at race speed I would probably get a half hour out of it tops. People that are claiming 4 hour rides and such must be moving at a snail's pace on firm ground the entire time. I'm not believing it for a second.

It is very dependent on what you are riding on. I would guess we are a similar riders. I can get about 24 miles at race pace in map 1. So left in map one exclusively and riding it like a 125. This is up here in wny though. If I ride in any other map it drastically reduces that estimate. For example past weekend I did 12 miles and had about 25% charge left, average speed was 19 mph or so. It was a little muddy and I was using all maps. Rewind to July and I was competing in the 24hr race and was able to get close to 24 miles in map 1 at race pace in extremely wet conditions. Interestingly it wasn't very loamy for that race though so traction was actually not terrible. I have fully depleted my battery in 16 miles before doing race pace in loamy dirt. I imagine sand is similar in repsects to sucking the battery down. I find the Alta is the best for Moto. It handles really well doing Enduro stuff but it just doesn't last super long unless you leave it in map one and don't go balls to the wall. If I am riding with a group and we aren't going super fast I can get 30ish miles out of it here in wny.

 

[JW884]

Ok so I just did my first real ride tonight on the MXR, tight sandy single-track, mostly map 2, rode 12 miles in 52 minutes and went all the down to 30% left. I'm a B level rider, average speed 12 mph. I am SERIOUSLY DISAPPOINTED in those numbers. This means that this isn't a viable bike for any type of riding that's with a group or at a larger place. This bike is really only good for after work juants or quick outings. Anyone who claims they entered this in a race for an hour is totally full of crap. NO WAY will this bike last an hour at race speed. If I rode it at race speed I would probably get a half hour out of it tops. People that are claiming 4 hour rides and such must be moving at a snail's pace on firm ground the entire time. I'm not believing it for a second.

I've gone on trail rides with groups for hours no problem (different maps & elevation). I've done an hour long woods race in map 2 with slick conditions & had 30% left. 30min JDay at Southwick all map 2 in woods & map 4 on moto track & had 50% left no problem. Not everyone is goosing it and wasting battery through the woods & as long as you're mindful of it, it's great. Yeah sand will drag it down and waste more, but a lot of us don't really have to deal with that

 

[Mark911]

It's all in the right wrist. Fast guys will get poor range no matter what because they're going faster! In other words, the guy that's 15-20% faster will probably get 30-40% less range as the power required is more exponential (as opposed to linier). They accelerate harder/faster and reach whatever final throttle angle sooner. They hold the power on longer and brake harder. Then repeat. The ultimate range performance (and thermal) is extremely dependent on how hard you ride/race and if it's not meeting your needs the only solution is to slow down until it can.

 

[synics]

It's all in the right wrist. Fast guys will get poor range no matter what because they're going faster! In other words, the guy that's 15-20% faster will probably get 30-40% less range as the power required is more exponential (as opposed to linier). They accelerate harder/faster and reach whatever final throttle angle sooner. They hold the power on longer and brake harder. Then repeat. The ultimate range performance (and thermal) is extremely dependent on how hard you ride/race and if it's not meeting your needs the only solution is to slow down until it can.

Yeah you pretty much described me, ha ha. I also wonder though about the battery status itself. The guy I bought it from left it sitting for like 2 years on 100% charge and I'm sure that wasn't great for it...

 

[Oded]

You ride fast sandy tracks, probably the most demanding conditions for the electric system.

I ride mostly rocky hard enduro type terrain and can get 4 hours quite easily (see video).

Even on Red Bull's Erzberg rodeo the Alta lasted more than 30 minutes.

Either change the type of riding you do, or get used to the bike's range.

Important to investigate this issue before purchasing the bike, not after, to avoid disappointment.

 

[Mark911]

Yeah you pretty much described me, ha ha. I also wonder though about the battery status itself. The guy I bought it from left it sitting for like 2 years on 100% charge and I'm sure that wasn't great for it...

From my research the irreversible calendar/storage loss isn't that much, maybe 2 %/year. SOC storage voltage doesn't change things much, however, it's much more dangerous from a safety standpoint at higher voltages should some cell decide to short. Storage temperature does make a difference and can potentially double the loss over time. Now you could be talking a 10% loss over two years. I have spare packs that have been sitting for about the same period and haven't noticed any significant capacity loss. However, I monitor them and look for P groups that show atypical voltages relative to the others. If your pack had any cells that self discharged and subsequently stored for weeks at low voltage they could have been damaged. I would expect to see the bike throw one or two codes if this were the case, however. Your display and/or SOC algorithms might be corrupted as well giving you false information. Multitool can help troubleshoot your pack if you feel there's an issue.

 

[privateer703]

Did they leave it in ambient temperature over that time? I left mine in an unconditioned shed just for the winter and I developed a bad p-group. Also, once that happened the bike started reading the bad module as the total SOC for the bike. So while it told me I only had 25% charge, my 3 other modules were all at 90% SOC. MT is a must and I also argue that these bikes need to be garage kept at least, better yet in your living room, like some other members on here. But sand is also the worst for these bikes, well snow is the worst, but sand is a close second.

 

[rayivers]

these bikes need to be garage kept at least, better yet in your living room

+1 ! Even on an IP67 bike, the temp swings and dew-point transitions don't do anything any good.