New ALTA Alternative -Stark VARG - From Europe

[enjoythesilenc]

interesting stuff in the fine print section of the website. GPS and wifi to track how you use it and how you are charging the battery. They will be able to see if you drown your bike in a river crossing and cancel your two year warranty Or if you are trespassing, evading authority, poaching, speeding etc. Built in anti-theft, though!

IS one of the options for plastics Tin Foil?

 

[F451]

interesting stuff in the fine print section of the website. GPS and wifi to track how you use it and how you are charging the battery. They will be able to see if you drown your bike in a river crossing and cancel your two year warranty Or if you are trespassing, evading authority, poaching, speeding etc. Built in anti-theft, though!

IS one of the options for plastics Tin Foil?

Well that completely sucks.

Do you have a link to those statements? I couldn't find them on the Stark website.

Sounds like the Tesla model, where not only are they collecting technical data on the state of the vehicle, but recording audio and video of the vehicle occupants, most who do not know that is happening.

 

[F451]

"Premium" features. Pay to play subscription. Another bummer that is not clearly described in all the hype.

I'm not a fan of subscription services, would prefer to pay one and done.

From the order page under "Stark VARG display, phone & app": https://starkfuture.com/en-us-US/products/stark-varg:

Through the Stark VARG APP we offer you a 100 % customizable ride. The unique display of the Stark VARG is a shock resistant and waterproof Android phone, the “Stark VARG Phone”. When locked into place it charges and communicates wirelessly, whilst serving exclusively as the bike display and when unclicked by the press of a button it is a fully functioning smartphone.

In the Stark VARG APP we let you adjust the power curve, engine braking and virtual flywheel effect, as well as traction control. You can build more than 100 different ride modes, and choose to have five of those actively available on your bike at the same time. Change instantly through these five modes at the touch of a button on your handlebar. Build your ride modes to perform like a 125cc 2-stroke, 450cc 4-stroke or anything in between.

Features:
• The Stark VARG APP is available on the Stark VARG Phone or any Android or iOS device.
• You can easily transfer the information from your Stark VARG Phone to any other smartphone, where you can update the ride modes or analyze your riding data. This includes lap times, map data, speed, G-force, airtime and power consumption.
• Ability to share trails or ride modes with your friends.
• Check the battery level left on your bike via the display and see a range estimation based on your riding style.
• Personalized ride modes: Make the best of each situation by saving more than 100 personalized bike configurations that will allow you to adjust the power curve, engine braking, traction control and virtual flywheel effect to the relevant terrain and conditions.
• Internet connection: Premium users will receive a SIM card that will enable them to connect 24/7 in more than 150 countries and even use the Stark VARG Phone as their personal device.
• Display navigation: Make the most of your adventures as your bike display maps out your route through GPS powered smart display navigation. An essential resource for remote trail riding.
• Lap timer: Push yourself to the limit with our GPS enabled lap counter which allows you to track your lap times at any circuit.

All the above features will be available through our premium subscription plan, and certain features such as 24/7 internet connectivity, number of ride modes, adjustability and navigation are limited if you choose the free plan. All plans will automatically receive the latest over-air software updates and new customers are offered a one-month free trial of the premium plan. You will be able to select or update your plan in the Stark VARG app.

 

[Chadx]

Sounds like Stark may not even know exactly what will and will not be included. A couple clarifications, a SIM card is only needed in their included phone/gauge if you want it to connect to cellular towers. Otherwise it's via wifi which I'm fine with. And you can have the Varg app on any phone and make adjustments there when you are not around the bike and then load those back to the Varg phone.

From my perspective, I don't need to save 100 configured modes. I can see 10 or so, but even 5 would be good for me since one can only have 5 loaded and available on the bike at any given time. I would want/expect the adjustability to be available to non-paying members (power curve, engine braking curve, Virtual Flywheel Weight Acceleration, Virtual Flywheel Weight Deceleration, and Traction control). While I'd like access to the nav, I really don't need it as I have maps on my phone and don't need to reference them much. Same with the "race" type features such as lap times, speed, G-force, air time, etc. But we'll each have our preferences on what data we value depending on how we plan to use the Varg.
But I think all of the adjustability is core to the bike and so that should be included for free without subscription.

 

[Butch]

I finally watched the vid with the Sweedish dude in the turtleneck. He said you could ride it underwater.
Just don't got too deep.

"Rated to 10 atmospheres". NOT.

 

[F451]

Sounds like Stark may not even know exactly what will and will not be included. A couple clarifications, a SIM card is only needed in their included phone/gauge if you want it to connect to cellular towers. Otherwise it's via wifi which I'm fine with. And you can have the Varg app on any phone and make adjustments there when you are not around the bike and then load those back to the Varg phone.

From my perspective, I don't need to save 100 configured modes. I can see 10 or so, but even 5 would be good for me since one can only have 5 loaded and available on the bike at any given time. I would want/expect the adjustability to be available to non-paying members (power curve, engine braking curve, Virtual Flywheel Weight Acceleration, Virtual Flywheel Weight Deceleration, and Traction control). While I'd like access to the nav, I really don't need it as I have maps on my phone and don't need to reference them much. Same with the "race" type features such as lap times, speed, G-force, air time, etc. But we'll each have our preferences on what data we value depending on how we plan to use the Varg.
But I think all of the adjustability is core to the bike and so that should be included for free without subscription.

That's all well and good, but it should be described up front that way. From the promo video it sounds like all of these killer features come standard on the bike. Perhaps I was not listening closely enough (which is annoying in itself that I have to listen like a lawyer to make sure I don't get taken), but they should clearly describe the "base model" and what are additional cost, optional features, especially when they are an ongoing subscription fee (nickel and dime-ing your customers on a premium product, so lame).

 

[C5tor]

"Premium" features. Pay to play subscription. Another bummer that is not clearly described in all the hype.

I'm not a fan of subscription services, would prefer to pay one and done.

From the order page under "Stark VARG display, phone & app": https://starkfuture.com/en-us-US/products/stark-varg:

Through the Stark VARG APP we offer you a 100 % customizable ride. The unique display of the Stark VARG is a shock resistant and waterproof Android phone, the “Stark VARG Phone”. When locked into place it charges and communicates wirelessly, whilst serving exclusively as the bike display and when unclicked by the press of a button it is a fully functioning smartphone.

In the Stark VARG APP we let you adjust the power curve, engine braking and virtual flywheel effect, as well as traction control. You can build more than 100 different ride modes, and choose to have five of those actively available on your bike at the same time. Change instantly through these five modes at the touch of a button on your handlebar. Build your ride modes to perform like a 125cc 2-stroke, 450cc 4-stroke or anything in between.

Features:
• The Stark VARG APP is available on the Stark VARG Phone or any Android or iOS device.
• You can easily transfer the information from your Stark VARG Phone to any other smartphone, where you can update the ride modes or analyze your riding data. This includes lap times, map data, speed, G-force, airtime and power consumption.
• Ability to share trails or ride modes with your friends.
• Check the battery level left on your bike via the display and see a range estimation based on your riding style.
• Personalized ride modes: Make the best of each situation by saving more than 100 personalized bike configurations that will allow you to adjust the power curve, engine braking, traction control and virtual flywheel effect to the relevant terrain and conditions.
• Internet connection: Premium users will receive a SIM card that will enable them to connect 24/7 in more than 150 countries and even use the Stark VARG Phone as their personal device.
• Display navigation: Make the most of your adventures as your bike display maps out your route through GPS powered smart display navigation. An essential resource for remote trail riding.
• Lap timer: Push yourself to the limit with our GPS enabled lap counter which allows you to track your lap times at any circuit.

All the above features will be available through our premium subscription plan, and certain features such as 24/7 internet connectivity, number of ride modes, adjustability and navigation are limited if you choose the free plan. All plans will automatically receive the latest over-air software updates and new customers are offered a one-month free trial of the premium plan. You will be able to select or update your plan in the Stark VARG app.

Well, that makes more sense as far as their business model. The sweet e-bike is just the eye-candy that they sell to you below cost, but they use it to lure you into subscribing to their cell phone service.

Maybe Stark Future is NOT a motorcycle company at all! Maybe the slick Swedish dude in the turtleneck was just Ryan Reynolds in character, and this is just a Mint Mobile advert.

Look at the evidence: Chiseled chin: Check. Perfect hairline: Check. Gray turtleneck: Check. Witty Canadian/Swedish repartee: Check.
Conclusion: Gotta be the same dude!

#AmIWrong? #VargMint #StarkMint #MintyStarkVargMobile

 

[enjoythesilenc]

Well that completely sucks.

Do you have a link to those statements? I couldn't find them on the Stark website.

Sounds like the Tesla model, where not only are they collecting technical data on the state of the vehicle, but recording audio and video of the vehicle occupants, most who do not know that is happening.

Sorry, i let my mind wander to the nefarious side of the slippery slope that might be possible with a bike equipped with gps and wifi. The website doesnt say anything about actually cancelling your warranty if you drown it in a creek, for example. They will tout the features for improving your experience, etc. One example is suggesting suspension settings for you based on accelerometer data

The more data they collect, the more "product" they have to sell to someone else. Like to a big oem interested in buying them out for huge money...

 

[F451]

Well, that makes more sense as far as their business model. The sweet e-bike is just the eye-candy that they sell to you below cost, but they use it to lure you into subscribing to their cell phone service. Maybe they are not a motorcycle company at all. Maybe the slick Swedish dude in the turtleneck was just Ryan Reynolds in character, and this is just a Mint Mobile advert.

That Swedish dude sure did have the Jobs vibe going, all turtle necky, hands bringing the ends of the fingers together (who talks like that? Lol), the accent.

Sounds so high techie, so convincing. So brainwashy. And just a touch creepy.

I do love the bike though, Lol.

 

[F451]

Sorry, i let my mind wander to the nefarious side of the slippery slope that might be possible with a bike equipped with gps and wifi. The website doesnt say anything about actually cancelling your warranty if you drown it in a creek, for example. They will tout the features for improving your experience, etc. One example is suggesting suspension settings for you based on accelerometer data

The more data they collect, the more "product" they have to sell to someone else. Like to a big oem interested in buying them out for huge money...

It certainly would make sense that they would want to collect as much data as they can on everything they can, will help improve the product in the long term. And yes, the ability to sell the data (its randomized!) is a side benefit.

Unfortunately, the data collection can come back to bite the user in the ass when something goes sideways. Many examples of warranties being voided over some data points being recorded, rightly or wrongly.

I'm not a big fan of sharing my personal use data with corporations, especially when they don't make it explicitly know to the owners of their products (all to common nowadays).

 

[revoltlution]

Looks like they are poised for OverTheAir updates, but haven't seen mention yet.
Also, seriously, 80hp?

 

[F451]

Looks like they are poised for OverTheAir updates, but haven't seen mention yet.
Also, seriously, 80hp?

I know, 80 hp, whaaat?!

Gear that thing down and get on down to Bonneville.

And your nearest hillclimb competition.

I did hear in one of the vids that the purpose of the high hp motor is not necessarily to have crazy amounts of hp/torque, but rather to allow the motor to run in its most efficient sweet spot (sounded like mid-rpms) energy consumption wise, yet still have good hp/torque. Its contributing to the extended range of the Varge say vs the Alta both of which have very similar sized batteries.

 

[Chadx]

I thought their motor size reasoning was interesting. Based on their comments, they are suggesting, for example, that an 80hp motor operating at 50hp will be more efficient and consume less energy than a 50hp operating at 50hp. I don't know enough about electric motors to confirm or deny, but I imagine they wouldn't publish that if it was soundly untrue.

Another interesting bit is I was curious about order timing so tossed another Varg into my cart and went to the checkout page (and did not fully checkout). The estimated delivery date was 2023-02-25 compared to my delivery date of 2022-09-24 so a 5 month increase after taking orders for 11 days.

 

[Jayfox911]

Saw this and made me think about the varg (wolf)

 

[Fog 25]

I thought their motor size reasoning was interesting. Based on their comments, they are suggesting, for example, that an 80hp motor operating at 50hp will be more efficient and consume less energy than a 50hp operating at 50hp. I don't know enough about electric motors to confirm or deny, but I imagine they wouldn't publish that if it was soundly untrue.

Another interesting bit is I was curious about order timing so tossed another Varg into my cart and went to the checkout page (and did not fully checkout). The estimated delivery date was 2023-02-25 compared to my delivery date of 2022-09-24 so a 5 month increase after taking orders for 11 days.

I was watching the delivery dates also. I’ve been wondering how many units a month they plan on producing?
With supply chain issues going on now with material and components availability will they be able to produce that number?

 

[Rashid510]

I was watching the delivery dates also. I’ve been wondering how many units a month they plan on producing?
With supply chain issues going on now with material and components availability will they be able to produce that number?

A company ran by some high level clout from EU? Time to get the popcorn ready.....Good luck trying to get infront of the cell game.

 

[Chadx]

At least the Varg only uses 400 battery cells per bike rather than 4,000 - 18,000 cells like in an EV car/pickup (depending on what type of cells they use).

 

[Rashid510]

At least the Varg only uses 200 battery cells per bike rather than 4,000 - 18,000 cells like in an EV car/pickup (depending on what type of cells they use).

And thats good? At Alta we had roughly 500 cells per pack. Even at the assumption of 1000 bikes manufactured thats only 500,000 cells...which were split between two cell types. That is laughable in the cell commodity game, every major cell supplier is going to want an MOQ (minimum order quantity) of 5M cells or even more for an invalidated/unsecured company.

 

[Chadx]

Ah, Interesting. I have no first hand knowledge of MOQ, etc. I was thinking more simply and from the perspective that if cells are hard to acquire and a manufacturer obtains a specific number of them, one can build a lot more bikes from a specific quantity of cells compared to the number of cars/trucks from the same quantity.

 

[fsfs]

At least the Varg only uses 200 battery cells per bike rather than 4,000 - 18,000 cells like in an EV car/pickup (depending on what type of cells they use).

There are 400 cells per bike