Performance difference from MX to EX?

[TNG_Omnia]

So I'm sitting around waiting for my Varg (I with the EX), but I am curious how it feels to those who've had both or had a chance to try/race/interact with both. The horsepower is the same, but the torque difference seems pretty substantial. I haven't found anyone yet who's put them head to head in terms of top speed, acceleration, etc, and I'm super curious to see what current owners think as I spend an unhealthy amount of hours day dreaming until it shows up at my door.

 

[Chadx]

I wasn't aware there was a motor torque difference. Or are you talking about the deceptive rear wheel torque numbers some manufacturers are choosing to publish, which are pointless because they are simply multipliers of torque base on rear tire diameter,count of front and rear sprockets, etc.?

 

[Erwin P]

Both have the same torque number at the countershaft. Difference is in gearing.

 

[TNG_Omnia]

I wasn't aware there was a motor torque difference. Or are you talking about the deceptive rear wheel torque numbers some manufacturers are choosing to publish, which are pointless because they are simply multipliers of torque base on rear tire diameter,count of front and rear sprockets, etc.?

I'd heard that there was a decrease in torque for top speed or something like that with the ex, I don't know how true that is but when I checked the stark site they listed the mx at 938 to I think and the ex at 700 smth so it made sense but I've heard the only difference is in the gearing so maybe that's it

 

[Theo]

I wasn't aware there was a motor torque difference. Or are you talking about the deceptive rear wheel torque numbers some manufacturers are choosing to publish, which are pointless because they are simply multipliers of torque base on rear tire diameter,count of front and rear sprockets, etc.?

Surely the torque at the wheel depends on gearing, but it doesn't depend on the wheel diameter. The force transimtted to the ground does depend on the size of the wheel, since it is equal to:
torque to the wheel / wheel radius
for example, the force that the Varg EX can put to the ground (provided the grip is enough) is 1,036 Nm / 0.341 m = 3,040 N

Another thing to consider is that, anyways, typically an 18" enduro rear wheel has the same overall diameter as a 19" MX wheel because of the different sidewall height. The theoretical overall diameter of the rear wheel of both the Varg EX and MX is 681 mm.

I'd heard that there was a decrease in torque for top speed or something like that with the ex, I don't know how true that is but when I checked the stark site they listed the mx at 938 to I think and the ex at 700 smth so it made sense but I've heard the only difference is in the gearing so maybe that's it

On their website they state "938 Nm on the rear wheel" for the MX and "1036 Nm on the rear wheel" for the EX, but 275 Nm "on the counter shaft" for both. It's written in the specific paragraph of the powertrain.

 

[Chadx]

Surely the torque at the wheel depends on gearing, but it doesn't depend on the wheel diameter.

One point of clarification is that I said tire diameter; not wheel diameter. This because wheel size doesn't mean overall diameter (or circumference) changes.

That being said, you are correct that I got lazy and lumped tire diameter in with sprockets/gearing when mentioning torque at the rear wheel, which is not correct. Tire diameter changes effective gear ratio and tractive force, but not torque at the wheel. But tire diameter can have a fairly good effect on the effective gear ration and the feel/drivability of a vehicle. But like you and others have said, what I was getting at is there is no difference in output shaft torque between the MX and EX. And, in my opinion, motorcycle rear wheel torque is a silly and meaningless measurement that some marketing person thinks they should use because, when you include gear reduction, it sounds like a really huge number to people that are used to automotive torque measurements which are typically not at the rear wheel and so do not include transmission nor rear differential gear reductions to deceptively inflate the torque value...unless you are some of the EV vehicle manufacturers that have started using the same trick in their marketing. Ha.

 

[Erwin P]

One point of clarification is that I said tire diameter; not wheel diameter. This because wheel size doesn't mean overall diameter (or circumference) changes.

That being said, you are correct that I got lazy and lumped tire diameter in with sprockets/gearing when mentioning torque at the rear wheel, which is not correct. Tire diameter changes effective gear ratio and tractive force, but not torque at the wheel. But tire diameter can have a fairly good effect on the effective gear ration and the feel/drivability of a vehicle. But like you and others have said, what I was getting at is there is no difference in output shaft torque between the MX and EX. And, in my opinion, motorcycle rear wheel torque is a silly and meaningless measurement that some marketing person thinks they should use because, when you include gear reduction, it sounds like a really huge number to people that are used to automotive torque measurements which are typically not at the rear wheel and so do not include transmission nor rear differential gear reductions to deceptively inflate the torque value...unless you are some of the EV vehicle manufacturers that have started using the same trick in their marketing. Ha.

Haha very true.

You'd be amazed by what torque numbers ICE's can deliver rear at the rear wheel in first gear.

 

[Chadx]

Haha very true.

You'd be amazed by what torque numbers ICE's can deliver rear at the rear wheel in first gear.

Especially 4x4 with low range transfer cases...or a semi tractor.

 

[Erwin P]

Especially 4x4 with low range transfer cases...or a semi tractor.

With my final gear ratio my KTM 990 pulls a casual 1700Nm in first gear.
Then all of a sudden the 938 of the Stark doesn't sound that extreem anymore.

 

[tymck7]

I've owned both. Not much difference in torque. The MX had PLENTY of torque at all rev ranges and so does the EX. EX, due to gearing (smaller front sprocket, larger rear sprocket 14/47 versus 12/48), has SLIGHTLY more torque and significantly reduced top speed. But feel is very similar until you get up to about 70mph, my EX tops out at like 75mph, got the MX up to mid 80's on a dirt road.

I have street rims and tires for the EX that I am fitting with a 42t rear sprocket and will have a 15t front sprocket to put on there with it when riding on street to hopefully get speed up to around 100mph.