General Poll, response appreciated

[fsfs]

The last four inverters that I have worked on all have an integrated IMU (inertial measurement unit). The idea is to use this for traction control that actually works in conditions where you cannot rely on wheel speed sensors. Think of it functioning somewhat like an autopilot for drones. Due to reasons I will not get into here, we have not been able to make proper use of the IMU. In short, our hands have been tied behind our backs. During the past week this has been nagging me. I am very curious to see if these ideas have merit or are just plain shit. What has been missing is a hardware platform to test these ideas. Well, perhaps the previous sentence is wrong and the platform has been staring me in the face all this time; Surron, Talaria, etc.

If we go ahead with this it will go as follows:

1. Develop a quality MOSFET based inverter that can be used on said bikes (with integrated IMU of course).
2. Work with test riders to develop the software (on prototype inverters).
3. Start production on inverters once the software provides appreciable advantage over “open loop” control.

So I have a few questions:

a) Would you consider this cheating? Would you care?
b) Would you be willing to help in the development process?
c) As someone who has not participated in the development process, would you be willing to pay a bit of a premium for this inverter?

Thank you in advance for your replies and feel free to call me dumb

 

[Philip]

What a cool project! But is this traction control tech going to be eventually used in the Varg or in the Surron and Talaria?

And doesn't the Varg already have an IMU somewhere (besides the cell phone)?

 

[fsfs]

What a cool project! But is this traction control tech going to be eventually used in the Varg or in the Surron and Talaria?

And doesn't the Varg already have an IMU somewhere (besides the cell phone)?

The idea is for the tech to be in aftermarket MOSFET inverters that can be installed on Surrons, Talarias, etc. There are no plans for the Varg.

 

[TCMB371]

1) no, I consider it taking advantage of electric technology. Screw the haters
2) sure!
3) maybe if the benefits were high

Question though. What's wrong with the method you used with Alta? Define acceleration limits, preventing the rear tire from spinning up faster than a set value. Just having that parameter available in the app would be amazing. Adjusting it on the Alta had pretty awesome effects. I was able to ride in mud with max power with very little tire spin.

 

[Philip]

a) Not cheating, just a different version of traction control that all dirt bikes already have anyway.
b) I do not have a Surron/Talaria, sorry.
c) No, I do not think a 6 kW mini-bike needs an advanced traction control.

 

[Theo]

a) Would you consider this cheating? Would you care?

I personally think that keeping the power under control using the throttle is part of the fun of riding and it's a skill I want to keep trained, so honestly I think I wouldn't like it. Never tried it on a motorcycle, though.

b) Would you be willing to help in the development process?
c) As someone who has not participated in the development process, would you be willing to pay a bit of a premium for this inverter?

Since my only electric bike is a Varg and I probably live too far, I can't help, unfortunately.

3. Start production on inverters once the software provides appreciable advantage over “open loop” control.

So, does your system use a closed loop, measuring the effect of the previous intervention to then adjust the next intervention, while the typical traction control only uses some criteria like rotational acceleration of the engine, without checking the result?

 

[fsfs]

1) no, I consider it taking advantage of electric technology. Screw the haters
2) sure!
3) maybe if the benefits were high

Question though. What's wrong with the method you used with Alta? Define acceleration limits, preventing the rear tire from spinning up faster than a set value. Just having that parameter available in the app would be amazing. Adjusting it on the Alta had pretty awesome effects. I was able to ride in mud with max power with very little tire spin.

There is nothing wrong with a fixed (constant) acceleration limit. That limit really isn't a constant and I think it is possible to do significantly better.

For the App I am assuming the Varg's app. We have zero influence on Varg development -- this has been the case for a significant amount of time now. What we are looking for is a platform to test our ideas. Since the Varg is no longer a realistic option we are exploring our options.

 

[fsfs]

I personally think that keeping the power under control using the throttle is part of the fun of riding and it's a skill I want to keep trained, so honestly I think I wouldn't like it. Never tried it on a motorcycle, though.


Since my only electric bike is a Varg and I probably live too far, I can't help, unfortunately.


So, does your system use a closed loop, measuring the effect of the previous intervention to then adjust the next intervention, while the typical traction control only uses some criteria like rotational acceleration of the engine, without checking the result?

One part of it is using the IMU to measure what is actually happening and use that information in the next cycle. However, there is more to it than that. Also, the final form will likely have considerable differences from initial ideas/plans. That is why we need a test platform and riders.

A good result is far from guaranteed, but I believe we have a good chance at creating something quite good.

Edit: As you mentioned location we are in Croatia.

 

[Brillie35]

1) no, I consider it taking advantage of electric technology. Screw the haters
2) sure!
3) maybe if the benefits were high

Question though. What's wrong with the method you used with Alta? Define acceleration limits, preventing the rear tire from spinning up faster than a set value. Just having that parameter available in the app would be amazing. Adjusting it on the Alta had pretty awesome effects. I was able to ride in mud with max power with very little tire spin.

How do you adjust this parameter on the Alta?
Is it available in Multitool?