General Poll, response appreciated

[Philip]

What happens is the electric motor spins up the rear wheel very quickly after it leaves the ground. This raises the front and lowers the rear, causing the rear to slam into the next whoop. I have written software to mitigate this and given it to Stark Future about a year ago. I don't know if they have released it to users or plan to do so.

This was obvious back in ~2018 when Josh Hill battled Ricky Carmichael in Paris. Josh's bike went teeter-totter in the whoops, every single lap. I later experienced this myself. My Alta could never do the whoops well. It was much easier to jump the whoops than to skim them.

The reason, I think, ICE bikes skim the whoops better is because they have a bigger flywheel. So... wouldn't a dumb fix like a big enough "virtual flywheel" make electric bikes perform nearly equally?

what if I wanted to do the same thing without having the skills: do you think that it could be done using a kind of wheelie control which prevents the rider from raising the front end too much and flip back?

In theory, if the controller is fast enough, and the motor is powerful enough, and the inertia of the rotating motor and wheels is large enough, then yes. In practice though, if the system runs into the limitations of any of the above, then it may not be able to sustain that whoop-skimming-wheelie. In other words: at low speeds - yes, at high speeds - not likely.

 

[Marko_Flux]

If you guys cut ties with Stark, we could be interested in playing around together. Balkan bros? LMK

 

[fsfs]

I have been doing a bit more thinking about this and have decided to move forward with it. IMO, using a twist throttle as the only input is not the way to go. Quite a while ago I did a bit of physics/math to implement a clutch. The main aim is to be able to keep the bike in a relatively low power setting but be able to use the clutch to loft the front end. Also it can be used to get rid of engine braking when desired. However, attaching a clutch lever interferes with with the hand brake (for people who chose that option). Would a thumb brake make sense? Or perhaps a thumb clutch?

 

[Theo]

Or perhaps a thumb clutch?

Another option is a control like this thumb activated throttle:

Edit: I mean that it's a variation to the typical design of throttle controls which lets the rider keep the thumb in a more natural position.

 

[fsfs]

Another option is a control like this thumb activated throttle:

Yes, i know about those. That is really an interesting in combination with a twist throttle. You could set the twist throttle for lets say 40HP, then use the thumb for the full 80HP beans. That would be another way to loft the front end while keeping the bike controllable with the twist throttle. BTW, I am not really a fan of throttle curve "shapes". If you make it less sensitive in one area, it becomes more sensitive in another area -- gain somewhere, lose elsewhere.

Any gut feeling which would be better for lofting the front? E-Clutch with algorithm to simulate a mechanical clutch (with some virtual engine RPM feedback) or thumb throttle?

 

[Beagle]

However, attaching a clutch lever interferes with with the hand brake (for people who chose that option).

I think Flux moto are working on that, aren't they? If I remember right the left lever ("virtual clutch") is supposed to act either like a clutch or a rear brake depending on an algorithm fed by multiple inputs like throttle position, front brake, wheel speed and so on?

Interesting that Josh Hill just mentioned in his latest video that he asked Stark if they could work on some kind of clutch. I was thinking it would be needed more for off-road than MX but maybe not?

 

[fsfs]

I think Flux moto are working on that, aren't they? If I remember right the left lever ("virtual clutch") is supposed to act either like a clutch or a rear brake depending on an algorithm fed by multiple inputs like throttle position, front brake, wheel speed and so on?

Interesting that Josh Hill just mentioned in his latest video that he asked Stark if they could work on some kind of clutch. I was thinking it would be needed more for off-road than MX but maybe not?

I have had a clutch on Varg for a long time. The ideas behind it are somewhat different than with Flux (at least as what I know about Flux).

The electronics do have inputs where a clutch can be connected, it is just that having a clutch is against the leaderships vision. However, that didn't/doesn't keep me (and others here in Croatia) from experimenting on our own; but we don't make videos and put them up on the internet.