Segway -hybrid-hydrogen

[Fog 25]

What do we think?
Segway (Yes, Segway) Is Making a Hybrid Motorcycle Worthy of All Your ‘Tron’ Fantasies

 

[snydes]

Pretty cool... I’d be surprised if it actually happens but I’d ride one!

 

[privateer703]

I'm a kid of the 80s and a sci-fi geek, so this is tron-tastic! While the hybrid engine sounds really cool... where do you fill up on Hydrogen?? That aspect doesn't sound completely thought out. And if you thought a bunch of batteries or a big old tank of gas was a fire hazard, you should really be concerned about Hydrogen.

 

[VINSANITY]

This concept is really interesting.

Teznic has working prototypes of real time on demand hydrogen generation. The concept is you have a tank of water and the system converts it to hydrogen on demand. Apparently 2/3 weight of a battery for same power and much much greater range. If this actually works that would solve many of the electric drawbacks, weight, charge time, range. They are planning to offer a complete bike called Dope.

Teznic Bikes

Hydrogen

 

[snydes]

Interesting times. Imagine being way out in the wilderness and “well, gotta fill the bike up” and you find your way to the nearest stream.

 

[privateer703]

This concept is really interesting.

Teznic has working prototypes of real time on demand hydrogen generation. The concept is you have a tank of water and the system converts it to hydrogen on demand. Apparently 2/3 weight of a battery for same power and much much greater range. If this actually works that would solve many of the electric drawbacks, weight, charge time, range. They are planning to offer a complete bike called Dope.

Something doesn't sound right, it takes just as much energy to convert water into hydrogen, then convert it back to electricity to power the bike?? You have some energy losses on top of that. A similar idea to convert water into hydrogen to power a combustible engine was also claimed, Mythbusters tried a number of these ideas and ultimately they all failed to perform. Maybe I'm not understanding the concept. You could have a hydrogen "Charger" plug into your home outlet, create hydrogen from water and fuel your tron-cycle, but using your battery to change water into hydrogen, only to use it again as electricity is a losing battle.

 

[C5tor]

Yeah, I think it works the other way. It takes hydrogen and combines with oxygen in the air to produce water and electricity. You’d need a whole other “generator” setup to split the water from the stream back into hydrogen and oxygen to fill the tank with hydrogen again. Then fossil fuel proponents will still make fun of you for using a gas generator to generate your hydrogen to power your fuel cell bike.

 

[VINSANITY]

The web site has a white paper and explanation. I do not fully understand but I think it uses some form of electrolysis to get hydrogen out of water and from there I don’t get it. I watched the video of it making power?

 

[Matt]

I worked in fuel cell research for a little bit while I was in grad school. My interpretation of what Teznic is doing is curbing the peak demand on the electric power train by using a fuel cell to essentially act as a large capacitor. So instead of having large draws from the battery, there is a more constant lower draw that converts water to hydrogen and acts as a buffer allowing bursts of energy draw without putting it on the battery and allowing the battery to have a steady draw at an optimal load improving things like thermal. I could be wrong, I only looked at it for a short bit. But the process of splitting water via electrolysis does require the same or more energy than what you get out (always more as there is losses but that is beside the point. ) It is still a cool technology that appears to be able to improve the efficiency of other power trains.

 

[VINSANITY]

That is a good explanation, I understood the electrolysis part but didn’t understand the rest.

Like you said improvement in range without increasing weight would be a big improvement.

i would think the electrolysis components would be more likely to need replacement and may not be as robust for off road punishment.

 

[Philip]

It is very confusing! Cheap or expensive? A future alternative, or an alternative with no future?

Elon Musk says the tech is ‘mind-bogglingly stupid,’ but hydrogen cars may yet threaten Tesla

"Elon Musk has dismissed hydrogen fuel cells as “mind-bogglingly stupid,” and that is not the only negative thing he has had to say about the technology. He has called them “fool cells,” a “load of rubbish,” and told Tesla shareholders at an annual meeting years ago that “success is simply not possible.”

Musk found a surprising source of support in 2017, when Yoshikazu Tanaka, chief engineer in charge of the Mirai, told Reuters, “Elon Musk is right — it’s better to charge the electric car directly by plugging in.” But the Toyota executive added that hydrogen is a viable alternative to gasoline."

“The cost of manufacturing our material is so low, and the energy density it can store is so much higher than a lithium-ion battery, that we could see hydrogen fuel cell systems that cost four times less than lithium-ion batteries, as well as providing a much longer range,” said Antonelli."

"Hydrogen fuel cell cars now average between 312 miles and 380 miles in range, according to the EPA. They will cost about $80 to refuel from empty."

"The biggest problem: The cars remain expensive. Nexo, for instance, is the most expensive Hyundai on sale in the U.S., with a starting price of $59,345 (starting prices for the brand’s comparably-sized Santa Fe start at $24,250)."

 

[B. FRANK]

what about mr. fusion? it makes 24 jigawatts from banana peels. doc brown got it down!