SOLVED: DC Timeout Code 113 when charging! Something new!

[wwmotors]

Hello ALTA specialists, i have a new Code on my MXR 2018: When i begin charging the bike-display says: "Starting.....Charging....after 20 seconds.....Stopping 113. The powercharger never starts its fan. Code 113 is a DC timeout. So i tried again with my standard charger, same result! Did anyone have a similar problem?
Could it be a connectionproblem in the charging port or plug, when there is no DC detected with both chargers? Thanks for any help in advance. Cheers WW

 

[bluefxstc]

I wonder if you have a broken wire/loose connection in the CAN bus circuit for the charger. I know the charger and the bike are constantly communicating and if that stream of data is interrupted the charger will stop. Might have something interrupting that data flow that stops the charger. Here is what Elcon says about CAN messages with the standard charger.

If your Elcon PFC charger has been programmed for CAN Bus control and you received a CAN Bus adapter with your charger, pin 1 of the adapter must be connected to CAN-Lo from your BMS and pin 2 to CAN-Hi. If your BMS does not already have a 120 ohm termination resistor across CAN-Lo and CAN-Hi, you will need to add one. The charger expects to receive every second a message from the BMS with CAN ID 1806E5F4 and 8-byte data with the voltage and current requested. If the charger doesn’t receive a valid CAN message in 5 seconds, it stops charging until it receives a valid CAN message. The charger sends out every second a CAN status message with voltage, current and status information. Up to 4 chargers with different CAN IDs 1806E5F4, 1806E7F4, 1806E8F4 and 1806E9F4 can be connected to the same CAN bus and be controlled by one BMS.

 

[wwmotors]

I have a EXR also. All my 4 chargers are working on the EXR, but no charger works on the MXR. So it is definitely no charger problem. But i also think, that there must be a bad connection somewhere in the MXRs wiring, because i had that problem one day, but it solved itself after a few tries. Now it does not want to charge at all after 2 stints of indoor Supercross. What are Your thoughts? Where should i begin to look for the wiring or connection problems? What blackboxes are important, when charging the MXR?

 

[Rashid510]

I have a EXR also. All my 4 chargers are working on the EXR, but no charger works on the MXR. So it is definitely no charger problem. But i also think, that there must be a bad connection somewhere in the MXRs wiring, because i had that problem one day, but it solved itself after a few tries. Now it does not want to charge at all after 2 stints of indoor Supercross. What are Your thoughts? Where should i begin to look for the wiring or connection problems? What blackboxes are important, when charging the MXR?

The DCCP. Has the DCCP been updated? Its a black box underneath the charge port. Those rarely go bad, and usually an update works on those.

 

[wwmotors]

Hello Rashid, i did an update with the dealer laptop. This was done pretty quick, because it had already the latest software on the bike. I did serveral updates in the last 8000kms. I deleted all fault codes, even when i had none of them. Nothing changed. DC timeout, when charging. The DCCP is the one in the very front of the frame, right? I can disasemble it and test the one of my EXR. Or what would You do next? Thanks WW

 

[Rashid510]

Since you have the ability to swap out DCCPs, yes you can try to do that. Its underneath the deltawing. You can also check the DCCP harness too. Looking through my notes, the code related to the DCCP FW update is not 113. 113 could be related to a comms timeout, where if the CAN line in the DCCP harness is damaged, could be the reason why you have intermittent connections.

So:
Check DCCP harness 1st
Swap DCCPs and re-try charging

 

[Oded]

To update / re-flash the DCCP, you need to flash an older fw and than re flash the newer version.
If the Multitool recognize the fw as the most updated, it will not re flash it.
Just make sure you do it.

 

[wwmotors]

To update / re-flash the DCCP, you need to flash an older fw and than re flash the newer version.
If the Multitool recognize the fw as the most updated, it will not re flash it.
Just make sure you do it.

Hello Oded, OK, I will do first a reflash like You mentioned. Thats less work, than dissasembling the whole bike. Is it right, to give the bike with my VIN in the json-file another firmwarenumber, that it gets an older firmware version or is there a more simple way to do? I have Multitool on my laptop!

 

[Rashid510]

Hello Oded, OK, I will do first a reflash like You mentioned. Thats less work, than dissasembling the whole bike. Is it right, to give the bike with my VIN in the json-file another firmwarenumber, that it gets an older firmware version or is there a more simple way to do? I have Multitool on my laptop!

Just run the FW package from the loader tab. Then you dont need to use the VIN. But I thought you already tried the FW check?

 

[Oded]

Here you will find previous fw versions. Look for one with an older DCCP version -

Firmware Downloads (All Released Versions)

MX/MXR Firmware New in MX 1.5.1: - prevent fault when rolling some throttles forward New in MX 1.5: - support for metric units - support for additional R charger variants - improved isolation test logic - resolve isolation failures to inside/outside of charger - display warning for high...

electricdirtriders.com

I also use Rashid's method, and suggest you flash only the DCCP via the loader tab.

 

[Jared]

I think I remember hearing about this problem with one other Alta owner, and it turned out to be one of the pins in the charge connector was loose and sliding down into the connector. Might consider pushing lightly on each of the pins in the bike’s connector just to make sure they are secure.

 

[wwmotors]

I think I remember hearing about this problem with one other Alta owner, and it turned out to be one of the pins in the charge connector was loose and sliding down into the connector. Might consider pushing lightly on each of the pins in the bike’s connector just to make sure they are secure.

Hi Jared, thanks for the hint. I just checked that, but all pins are fixed. Also on the charger plug everything is OK.

 

[wwmotors]

Update: So i went back with the loader tab in MT to Firmware-Version 1.4.2 on ACM, BCU, DCCP, Display and Inverter. BRD0 and BRD1 where up to date. I think, BRD has nothing to do with that problem. Then I checked charging. No charging possible. Then back to 1.5.1.1, no changes. So I have to go the hard way and find the one cable or connection, which makes the problem! Wish me luck friends, to find it with no big drama! I will begin with the cable from the charging plug to the DCCP. I saw, that i was charging now over 650 hours on my MXR. That means, i plugged the charger estimated 2000 times on and off. So I think, the problem should be randomly underneath the chargingport!?!

 

[Rashid510]

Update: So i went back with the loader tab in MT to Firmware-Version 1.4.2 on ACM, BCU, DCCP, Display and Inverter. BRD0 and BRD1 where up to date. I think, BRD has nothing to do with that problem. Then I checked charging. No charging possible. Then back to 1.5.1.1, no changes. So I have to go the hard way and find the one cable or connection, which makes the problem! Wish me luck friends, to find it with no big drama! I will begin with the cable from the charging plug to the DCCP. I saw, that i was charging now over 650 hours on my MXR. That means, i plugged the charger estimated 2000 times on and off. So I think, the problem should be randomly underneath the chargingport!?!

@wwmotors this is not related to the harness of the vehicle. By doing the FW check sounds like the DCCP itself has issues. I would also check the DCCP harness as well. Thats an orange cable that your charger plugs into and goes into the DCCP.

 

[wwmotors]

Update: As usual, Rashid was right! Best man! After checking and measuring through the harness from the chargeport to the DCCP (no issuses), I swapped the DCCP from the EXR to my MXR. Now the MXR is charging again. Does anyone have experience with DCCP problems? I did not find visible damage or humidity inside. What could go worong inside the DCCP?
To be sure, I ordered the PCBA at liquid. Costs 480 Dollars until it arrives in Germany! Wow. But better than having a bike, which is not running! But anyway, i want to try to repair my DCCP as sparepart.

 

[Rashid510]

Update: As usual, Rashid was right! Best man! After checking and measuring through the harness from the chargeport to the DCCP (no issuses), I swapped the DCCP from the EXR to my MXR. Now the MXR is charging again. Does anyone have experience with DCCP problems? I did not find visible damage or humidity inside. What could go worong inside the DCCP?
To be sure, I ordered the PCBA at liquid. Costs 480 Dollars until it arrives in Germany! Wow. But better than having a bike, which is not running! But anyway, i want to try to repair my DCCP as sparepart.

There are a few resistors/components inside the DCCP which can fry (I have experience seeing it in person at Alta) which are related to normal PCBA failure. I have seen one other DCCP fail completely here in the USA.

@wwmotors I do have a completed DCCP built up if you would prefer that instead (pre-programmed)

 

[wwmotors]

There are a few resistors/components inside the DCCP which can fry (I have experience seeing it in person at Alta) which are related to normal PCBA failure. I have seen one other DCCP fail completely here in the USA.

@wwmotors I do have a completed DCCP built up if you would prefer that instead (pre-programmed)

Hello Rashid, for sure, i am interested in your DCCP. How much do you want for it shipped to Germany? Am i able to program the DCCP from Liquid with Alta MT? If not, you are my only opinion! Cheers ww

 

[wwmotors]

There are a few resistors/components inside the DCCP which can fry (I have experience seeing it in person at Alta) which are related to normal PCBA failure. I have seen one other DCCP fail completely here in the USA.

@wwmotors I do have a completed DCCP built up if you would prefer that instead (pre-programmed)

Hello Rashid, I checked the PCBA very exactly. There is no part to see, shich got fried or too hot. But the 2 relais on the PCBA are pretty heavy. I had the same issue with the code 113 a few months before, but it solved itself by using another charger, then later both chargers worked again. So I did not care anymore. Now I think, the whole drama is caused by vibration through the over 8000kms of MX. The ralais may be produce with their weight a crack somewhere in the PCBA. So i will try to soder all the connections on the rearside, to make sure there is no "cold" soderingspot and try agin charging.

 

[wwmotors]

Update: After sodering all connections of the plugs and the 2 relais, the bike is charging again! So my assumption was right, that the vibration of MX riding made one or more little cracks in the PCBA. Just in case, someone else, will get the problem! My question to Rashid is now: When trying to measure all contacts and connections, i was not able to measure them, because of some isolation all over the backside of the PCBA. It must be a coating on the backside. Rashid, do You know something about a coating and should i apply after sodering something similar to the backside? Thanks and Cheers for the help of all, to keep our bikes running all over the world! wwmotors

 

[Rashid510]

@wwmotors - that coating is a conformal coating which is applied to help keep the PCBA waterproof/dustproof. Any PCBA conformal coating spray will work. Sounds like a cold solder or a solder joint might have gone bad in the relays.